Using non-spec filter bad?

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ExDelayed:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallPaul:
Don't forget the equivalent filter to the Motorcraft FL299, which is the same as the FL1A (PH8A), but 7 inches long!

---

Hmm, I might have to look at this. Im due for my next change in about 800 miles.

---

The Wix is really nice, but cost me $11. I can order the Purolator version for $6 at Advance Auto or get Fleetguard for $6 at a local truck dealer.

Wix has bypass in mount end, Fleetguard in opposite end. Purolator has it in opposite end for the FL1A version, but I believe the longer Purolator has it in the mount end.

Here are the numbers for the FL299 equivalent (double check them please):

Wix 51773
NAPA 1773
Puro L40017
Fram PH977A (I think Advance Auto stocks this one)
Fleetguard LF697
I have gotten two different numbers for AC (2142 and on the Puro package it said AC PF881). Not sure which is right, if either.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tmus2122:
I have a friend that used a diff filter, blew off about 100 feet out the drive with wife driving next day, made it about 10 miles to stop sign, engine sized, $1800 gone, but he saved $1 on this filter that looked like it should fit, also went on and looked good. DON'T DO IT, NOT WORTH IT.

---

This is a sad story. Only two ways I can figure for this to happen because of the wrong filter:

1) wrong threads and it just fit too loose (even the correct thread is not the tightest fit. Notice how much it will wobble on the stud before you get it turned down to the flange)

2) filter made for engine that has its own bypass valve, but is put on an engine that does not have a bypass valve.

Of course if you ruin an engine because the filter truly was defective, you have absolutely no recourse to the filter company if you don't use the filter they spec for your vehicle.

 

[FL-400S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallPaul:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ExDelayed:


I guess it all irons out in the end for me:
PH8A PH16 PH43
5.178 3.790 4.338 Height

---

Don't forget the equivalent filter to the Motorcraft FL299, which is the same as the FL1A (PH8A), but 7 inches long! All other parameters are the same.

BTW, the FL400S has the same threads as these filters, but the gasket is slightly smaller. My wife's Aerostar takes the FL400s and I am planning on running FL1As on it, starting next oil change. I still have to measure the flange diameter on the Aero, but am convinced it is exactly the same as my Pickup which specs FL1A. Yes, the older F150s ran FL1A filters.

Wix site is nice. Only filter site that I know of that gives the gasket dimenstions.

I think Purolator's site had listed the gallons per minute for their versions of these:

FL400s: 3 gpm
FL1A: 4 gpm
FL299: 7 gpm (Wix actually said 7-9 gpm on this size)

---

I actually tried to put an FL-1A on my 3.4L V6 tundra, but it wouldnt fit physically in the filter area. So I can use a longer FL-400S instead of the stock size 3614, but not a wider filter. The FL-1A (PH8A) will fit on a V8 tundra though. Actually the Toyota TRD filter for Tundra V8s is a large 1 qt filter like the FL-1A.

[ March 16, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: FL-400S ]

 

[labman]

There is a lot of filter substituting goes on with out problems. Chances are, if it screws on, and the gasket mates, you are going to get away with it unless you put a filter without a bypass on an engine without a bypass. One, the other, or both must have a bypass. If the bypass setting isn't what is specified, you have a different compromise between pressure and flow than the engine designer planned. A bigger filter can have mechanical problems.

I did use a PF 52 in place of the PF 47 called for on my Grand Am. I had room, and to was in a fairly well protected place. Neither had a bypass.

 

[kev99sl]

quote:

---

Originally posted by labman:
There is a lot of filter substituting goes on with out problems. Chances are, if it screws on, and the gasket mates, you are going to get away with it unless you put a filter without a bypass on an engine without a bypass. One, the other, or both must have a bypass. If the bypass setting isn't what is specified, you have a different compromise between pressure and flow than the engine designer planned. A bigger filter can have mechanical problems.

---

Yes, but keep in mind that many if not most aftermarket filters have bypass settings that are different than OEM specs to meet a wider variety of applications.

For example, every replacement filter for my Saturn has an 8 PSI setting, with the exception of WIX which is "8 - 11" PSI. The OEM filter specs out starting at 12 PSI. I run an oversized filter with a 16 PSI bypass setting without any problems.

Good luck finding the specs for your OEM filters: I can't even remember where I found mine!

[ March 17, 2004, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: kev99sl ]

 

[quadrun1]

The FL-400S should be fine, it definitely uses 3/4-16 threads. This is used on some Tauruses and many Escorts.

Just double-check that the gasket seals correctly, I think the original Toyota filter has a *slightly* smaller gasket diameter.

I'm interested in this because my SAAB turbo uses ACDelco PF53 (also 3/4-16 threads), which is sized somewhere between your PF1233-sized Toyota filter and the FL-400S (=ACDelco PFL400A).

 

[FL-400S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by quadrun1:
The FL-400S should be fine, it definitely uses 3/4-16 threads. This is used on some Tauruses and many Escorts.

Just double-check that the gasket seals correctly, I think the original Toyota filter has a *slightly* smaller gasket diameter.

---

Yeah the gasket is slightly bigger on the FL-400S. But the gasket sealing plate is still plenty wide to accommodate it. OK it seems Ive got the "go ahead" to use this filter faithfully. Ill put it on at the next oil change and leave it on this time

And on my Tundra 3.4L V6 too. I know for sure my 3.1L malibu has different threads though, so I cant just buy one filter for all of my sleds.

 

[FL-400S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gudmund:
LIKE I SAID, I HAVE BEEN USING FL400S'S FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THEY WORK FINE AND WILL KEEP USING THEM AS LONG AS I CAN GET THEM FOR $2.77 EACH AT WAL-MART. THE PH3614 IS THE FRAM ## FOR GEO METRO/SUSUKI SWIFTS AND THEY HAVE 3/4-16 THREADS AND PER THE WIX/NAPA BOOK 1348(SHORT) IS THEIR ##, WITH THE 1516(LONG) BEING THE CROSS ## TO THE FL400S. THEY ALL HAVE 3/4-16 THREADS AND WORK FINE!!!!! THEY DO NOT HAVE METRIC THEADS!!!!

---

Does wal-mart ever put them on sale for cheaper? IT seems they have a low everyday price, but if they went down to $2 or $2.25 Id buy a case of them. Kmart seems better about putting oils and stuff on sale, but they only sell nuclear orange filters.

 

[gudmund]

never seen them any cheaper than at Wal-mart, everybody else is higher(3.49autozone/3.79pepboys) what I have seen happen at wal-mart is the price goes up, than a while later you see the famous word "ROLLBACK" show up taking the price back to what it was or somewhat less than what it is. example Mobil 1 last Aug $18.42 for 5qt container than went to $22.42 for a while and now has been priced for the last month or so $19.82 with the "ROLLBACK" tag as if it's the best deal that ever happened. I think $2.77ea. is the best deal you are going to see unless you can talk them down lower with a big quanity buy of them.

 

[gudmund]

FL-400S-FYI- I cut open a Baldwin B243 today which is their version of the FL-400S/Wix 1516 etc. Don't bother with it, I was not impressed. It had the bypass at the far end with the basic rubber backflow valve and 44folds of paper. This filter is made by the same company that makes Amsoil/Hasting filters. The Wix/Motorcraft is still a better looking filter along with being better priced. This Baldwin cost $8.36 at Carquest(yes I said $8.36-SUCKS)

 

[FL-400S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by gudmund:
FL-400S-FYI- I cut open a Baldwin B243 today which is their version of the FL-400S/Wix 1516 etc. Don't bother with it, I was not impressed. It had the bypass at the far end with the basic rubber backflow valve and 44folds of paper. This filter is made by the same company that makes Amsoil/Hasting filters. The Wix/Motorcraft is still a better looking filter along with being better priced. This Baldwin cost $8.36 at Carquest(yes I said $8.36-SUCKS)

---

Well thanks for the info. But theres no way Id ever pay $8.36 for a filter so dont worry. I can do a whole oil change on my 6 quart truck for less than $9. If I really got cheap, I could to a change on my 3 quart tercel for about $4.

 

[gudmund]

$8.36 - I wouldn't either except for the collection of oil filters I have acumulated cutting open what ever brand I can fine out there. Guess you could say it's a hobby of mine now. After seeing the price diff between all of them, it proves price does not mean much when it comes to oil filters. $2.77 FL400S Motorcraft at Wal-mart is still the best deal going so far.

 

[axjohn]

Quadrun: In response to your statement "I'm interested in this because my SAAB turbo uses ACDelco PF53 (also 3/4-16 threads), which is sized somewhere between your PF1233-sized Toyota filter and the FL-400S (=ACDelco PFL400A)."

I also have a Saab (B234 motor), and you could also use (I currently use) the PF13-sized filter that was originally spec'd for those motors in the past. Other PF13 equivalents include Purolator L14670 and PL14670. Also, the Amsoil SDF42. And if you are bold, and don't live in a 'rocky' place, you can also fit the FL1A to some Saabs (not the newer 9-3 or 9-5 due to lack of space), or the Purolator 3001. The FL1A/3001, when installed, is suspiciously close to the O2 sensor for my comfort.

I have used all of these on my car, and finally settled on the PL14670 (when on sale), the K&N 2004 (when REALLY on sale), and the FL400S, which I currently use, and will continue to use because of price ($2.77 at Wally World) and availabilty. And because of the silicone anti-drainback valve!

 

[SHOZ]

You can fit the 20mm filters on the 3/4" thread applications but it will be loose until the gasket makes contact. You cannot use the 3/4" threads models on a motor with a 20mm filter mount.

[ May 02, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: SHOZ ]

 

[n8wvi]

If you want to 'mix-&-match' the M20x1.5 and the 3/4x16 sizes, see Oversize filter - more choices w/ cheap adaptor
I'm still pretty proud of this trick! Call the DC/Jeep/Dodge dealer BEFORE you head down there. It's not a very common part.

Dave

 

[labman]

Those of us that have cut open filters know exterior size and price have little to do with the amount of filter area. Cutting one open also shows shoddy construction, but does not tell you how good the media is. From my own personal experience and much of what I have read here, most of the OEM's are a good value for the money. See some of the earlier postings in this thread.

What I haven't seen here, and would dearly love to know, is do the better filters bypass less and protect better? Does even a good filter load up with crud, and bypass more towards the end of the OCI? The pressure drop through a filter is limited by the bypass pressure.

 

[ekpolk]

I certainly don't dispute that the area of the media is a prime factor in the filter's overall "ability" to do its job. I wonder, however, what effect other factors, such as medium material and geometry have. Mobil braggs about its "synthetic" (glass fibre vs. cellulose, see, Castrol's not alone in abusing that term...) medium. Toyota braggs about how its funky filter folding shape (origami filter???) is more efficient, and so forth. Does a "better" medium require less area to do the same job?

 

[ekpolk]

I've long been put off by the generally smallish filters on Toyotas. My Camry specs the Mobil-1 M1-102, which is pretty small. I tried the taller M1-209, but didn't like how close it nosed up to the exhaust manifold and cat (a little over a thumb width).

Another solution is simply to stay with the original small filter, and perform filter changes between oil changes. I figure that a fresh filter mid-way along gets me about the same effect as a larger one at the outset.

Also, I wonder about the wisdom of choosing a filter because it's cheaper than another by a couple of bucks. I see it as sort of like saving small change on pacemaker batteries. If you had an electronic device keeping your heart beating, would you scrimp to save two, five, or even seven dollars every few months??? Think about it.

 

[Bror Jace]

I agree that a cut away test is not the be-all and end-all of sources of info regarding oil filter performance, but consider this:

It would not make the least amount of sense to spend money on a quality base plate, thick-gage steel canister, high quality springs, valves and gasket(s) only to scrimp using a low-grade media which does not filter properly.

Therefore, I have concluded that the cutaway comparisons are quite indicative of overall filter performance.

--- Bror Jace

 

[theneonracer]

I have been running a Wix #51085 "viper" filter on my Neon for about 6 months. It hold about .5 quart more and I have noticed that my oil has been alot cleaner.

Media: Paper
Height: 3.790
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200