My brother was using a brand new chainsaw today and was complaining that was running bad and wouldn't idle right, hard starting etc.. I noticed that he was using an NMMA 2 stroke oil and mentioned it to him. He said he didn't know that difference, and "it won't hurt any". What difference is there between a TC-W and a TC rated 2 stroke oil? Will it kill an air cooled chainsaw motor to use oil rated for water cooled motors?
Using an NMMA 2 stroke oil in a chainsaw?
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I sure would not recommend it. An air cooled 2-cycle, especially a chain saw runs a lot hotter than an outboard. The oils have two completely different additive packages. I don't know if it will kill it, but it will sure plug it up over time. Tell your brother pour that mix in the gas tank of his car and go get some decent 2-cycle oil. One of the best over the counter oils is Echo Power Blend. Mix it at 50:1 and go to it. Also, DO NOT mix the NMMA oil and air cooled 2-cycle oils. Stands a good chance of jelling up.
Would using the NMMA burn up the chainsaw motor?
Over a long period of time I believe it will. The additives will break down and cause the rings to stick and plug the exhaust. Tell your brother to search the net for tree trimming and lawn care sites. He will find a wealth of info about this there.
What kind of saw does he have? Use what the mfg recommends. And I will bet it does not say NMMA approved oils. It will say things like JASO FC, ISO-GD, and API-TC.
What kind of saw does he have? Use what the mfg recommends. And I will bet it does not say NMMA approved oils. It will say things like JASO FC, ISO-GD, and API-TC.
in addition of what Johnny said, here's the explanation to 2T (2-stroke/2cycle oil) types and how to pick the correct grade for the function.
Air-cooled 2-cycle engines such as go-cart, chainsaw,weedwacker, genset, etc. runs hot and would require low-ash 2-cycle oil to go with it. Don't worry about the term "ash" for it's the byproducts of detergency (metallic based) that helps in keeping the internal engine clean and with proper blend (1/2 syn is a good beginning, full-syn is the best) with JASO FC or better (currently, the best is JASO FD) and/or in combination with ISO-l-EGD will give you best possible engine protection (to keep the piston skirt from scuffing, engine seizing up during extreme heat, reduce any possibility of ring sticking, gumming up/carboning up of the exhaust port or power valve and/or combustion chamber,etc.) In other words: JASO FD oil with additional ISO-l-EGD rating would keep your engine running at it's best for the longest possible life attainable. If you figure that JASO FC rated oil is very low smoke, try FD rated and you'll be genuinely surprised how little/no smoke it burns and it's so clean, there's no gum or soot left behind at all...
API TC is the most basic (or bare-minimum) 2T air-cooled oil specification. Don't buy any oil that fails to meet at least JASO FC (these days, you may still come across some #@$%! FB or FA rated oil in some poor countries such as Thailand where "tuk-tuk" runs on them and smoking up the city)
NMMA approved motor oils are meant to be used in water-cooled 2-cycle engine that has a lower engine head temperature. oils destined for use in these engine types sometimes come with no-ash formula which is not something that we would like to see in an ordinary air-cooled 2T engine (remember: we need those detergency formed low ash oil to keep the engine clean. Also: API TCW/NMMA rated 2T oils comes with different formulation that would not only runs like sheet in ordinary air-cooled engine, but also gums up the engine, causes ring sticking, etc.
Air-cooled 2-cycle engines such as go-cart, chainsaw,weedwacker, genset, etc. runs hot and would require low-ash 2-cycle oil to go with it. Don't worry about the term "ash" for it's the byproducts of detergency (metallic based) that helps in keeping the internal engine clean and with proper blend (1/2 syn is a good beginning, full-syn is the best) with JASO FC or better (currently, the best is JASO FD) and/or in combination with ISO-l-EGD will give you best possible engine protection (to keep the piston skirt from scuffing, engine seizing up during extreme heat, reduce any possibility of ring sticking, gumming up/carboning up of the exhaust port or power valve and/or combustion chamber,etc.) In other words: JASO FD oil with additional ISO-l-EGD rating would keep your engine running at it's best for the longest possible life attainable. If you figure that JASO FC rated oil is very low smoke, try FD rated and you'll be genuinely surprised how little/no smoke it burns and it's so clean, there's no gum or soot left behind at all...
API TC is the most basic (or bare-minimum) 2T air-cooled oil specification. Don't buy any oil that fails to meet at least JASO FC (these days, you may still come across some #@$%! FB or FA rated oil in some poor countries such as Thailand where "tuk-tuk" runs on them and smoking up the city)
NMMA approved motor oils are meant to be used in water-cooled 2-cycle engine that has a lower engine head temperature. oils destined for use in these engine types sometimes come with no-ash formula which is not something that we would like to see in an ordinary air-cooled 2T engine (remember: we need those detergency formed low ash oil to keep the engine clean. Also: API TCW/NMMA rated 2T oils comes with different formulation that would not only runs like sheet in ordinary air-cooled engine, but also gums up the engine, causes ring sticking, etc.
I recently bought a bottle of amsoil Saber for otboards, to use for my chainsaws. I had a terrible time with hard starting with that oil. I came to the conclusion it was the oil, also. The problems started with the first tank of gas, with this oil mixed in.
Originally Posted By: motorcity
I recently bought a bottle of amsoil Saber for otboards, to use for my chainsaws. I had a terrible time with hard starting with that oil. I came to the conclusion it was the oil, also. The problems started with the first tank of gas, with this oil mixed in.
Amsoil lists Saber Outboard as "not recommended" for chain saws. Saber Professional (ATP) is their "excellent" choice for chain saws.
I recently bought a bottle of amsoil Saber for otboards, to use for my chainsaws. I had a terrible time with hard starting with that oil. I came to the conclusion it was the oil, also. The problems started with the first tank of gas, with this oil mixed in.
Amsoil lists Saber Outboard as "not recommended" for chain saws. Saber Professional (ATP) is their "excellent" choice for chain saws.
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I've got 2 gallons of pennzoil xlf outboard 2 stroke oil.It is semisyn.. The bottle claims it is good modern high power engines and older 'seasoned' engines.Many older 2 stroke outboards were air cooled.Is it safe to use this oil in my air cooled outboard and my trimmer and saw?
Okay for the older air cooled outboard but not the trimmer and chain saw. Even the older air cooled outboards run a lot cooler than the trimmer and the saw. There are some outboard oils, and Pennzoil might be one of them that says it is okay to use in saws, etc. I say do not do it no matter what the oil company says.
Just acquired a reconditioned poulan 'wildthing'.Engine seems very tight,so I've decided to give her a rapid breakin.The rapid breakin requires extra friction so I have mixed pennzoil multipurpose at 100:1. Sofar everything going well.
How long are you going to run the Pennzoil MP at 100:1? It should wear pretty fast like that, I imagine.
Only ran the 'wildthang' for an hour on the MP 100:1 and the engine had shown very little (if any) loss of compression!
Who would ever think this engine could run on that small amt.of oil?These cheap saws should have a compression release.Paid $31.50 on ebay for it.When I stop tingling will continue with the 100:1 mix.
Who would ever think this engine could run on that small amt.of oil?These cheap saws should have a compression release.Paid $31.50 on ebay for it.When I stop tingling will continue with the 100:1 mix.
That ebay 'wildthing' suddenly refused to start.It won't even sputter.The engine isn't stuck and there is fuel getting to the plug.There is a spark across the plug but it is at this time dead in the water.It will be a good parts donor saw.Now I will use the outboard oil as a fuel additive in my Ford pickup.The air cooled equipment will get Pennz. air cooled.I like the nice oily film it leaves on the mufflers.The NMMA type oil puts a hard coating on the muffler exhaust and that bothers me.
Sorry to hear about your saw, MrMeeks.
I'm trying to get my father's Poulan Wild Thing running again. His is leaking air into the intake port (bad carb gasket) and will only run on full throttle, full choke.
I'm trying to get my father's Poulan Wild Thing running again. His is leaking air into the intake port (bad carb gasket) and will only run on full throttle, full choke.
NMMA 2 stroke oil is meant for outboards, not air cooled engines. please use the right oil for air cooled engines with at least a JASO FC spec or higher.
NMMA oils are not intended for high rpm air cooled engines. I would also not put them in a car. IMHO. why gum up O2 sensors and cats?
try starting fluid in the say, for fun.
try starting fluid in the say, for fun.
Yes,my luck ran out on the second wildthing,but it looks pretty just sitting there.Tried Klotz with 20 percent castor bean oil at 32:1. after 5 min. of sawing the idle speed increased to where the chain would spin fast! That bean oil lowers the friction alright-Just as I was told.The saw became hard to start -Now I'm back to using Pennz.. I won't experiment like this with the Stihl saw.It get Stihl oil only.
OilNerd, try a short electrode (CJ-8) plug in your WT.
It helped my good WT start easier.
OilNerd, try a short electrode (CJ-8) plug in your WT.
It helped my good WT start easier.
I took your advice from an earlier post and already did the CJ8 plug.
The current problem is that the carb gasket isn't sealing properly. Air is leaking into the intake port, so the saw will only run at WOT with the choke on, when the fuel mix becomes right. Any other throttle position or opening the choke and the mix becomes too lean to ignite.
I've got the new gasket bookmarked in on eBay, I've just got to order one and get some time to play with it.
The current problem is that the carb gasket isn't sealing properly. Air is leaking into the intake port, so the saw will only run at WOT with the choke on, when the fuel mix becomes right. Any other throttle position or opening the choke and the mix becomes too lean to ignite.
I've got the new gasket bookmarked in on eBay, I've just got to order one and get some time to play with it.
Today i mixed pennz. multipurpose at 50:1 for the bolens trimmer.
The Bolens starts easier and revs higher without that rpm lag it had with the Echo power blend.This engine specs. 40:1,but I just cannot get it running on 40:1 with any oil type or brand.
However, the wildthing saw runs good/starts easy on the Echo oil. ok
The Bolens starts easier and revs higher without that rpm lag it had with the Echo power blend.This engine specs. 40:1,but I just cannot get it running on 40:1 with any oil type or brand.
However, the wildthing saw runs good/starts easy on the Echo oil. ok
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