BMWs approved procedure for lifter tap was 3000 rpm for 5-7 mins. Not the same car I know, but its a cheaper and easier option than replacing the lifter. Take it out and drive it like it should be driven, like you stole it. This car probably hasnt seen much action with the mileage it has.
Using a 30 weight oil to unstick Porsche lifters?
- Thread starter DrivinWest
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Unfortunately it doesn't have an oil pressure gauge. When I changed the oil and first started the engine, I got a momentary "oil pressure low" warning on the dash. It lasted a second and went away before I could turn off the engine. I assume(d) that it was merely a slug of air going through the system that caused the warning.
Quote:
When I changed the oil and first started the engine, I got a momentary "oil pressure low" warning on the dash. It lasted a second and went away before I could turn off the engine. I assume(d) that it was merely a slug of air going through the system that caused the warning.
This is normal until the engines pump picks up oil and the pressure sensor sees enough oil pressure to extinguish the light.
If you had a broken relief valve spring the light would probably be on or flickering at idle when the engine is hot.
Don't let anyone sell you on the relief valve job without getting an oil pressure test done first.
With this car and knowing they had some issues with the relief valve i would get a pressure test done and install a oil pressure gauge in the car.
Once your sure you have good pressure take it out and run the revs up and keep it there for a few min.
When I changed the oil and first started the engine, I got a momentary "oil pressure low" warning on the dash. It lasted a second and went away before I could turn off the engine. I assume(d) that it was merely a slug of air going through the system that caused the warning.
This is normal until the engines pump picks up oil and the pressure sensor sees enough oil pressure to extinguish the light.
If you had a broken relief valve spring the light would probably be on or flickering at idle when the engine is hot.
Don't let anyone sell you on the relief valve job without getting an oil pressure test done first.
With this car and knowing they had some issues with the relief valve i would get a pressure test done and install a oil pressure gauge in the car.
Once your sure you have good pressure take it out and run the revs up and keep it there for a few min.
Although I have no knowledge of Porsche lifters, I've seen MMO cure lifter ticks in the past and know that this rude-and-crude petro-solvent can be a simple, harmless, and cheap fix for stuck lifters, or at least some of 'em.
Originally Posted By: Trav
If you had a broken relief valve spring the light would probably be on or flickering at idle when the engine is hot.
Don't let anyone sell you on the relief valve job without getting an oil pressure test done first.
Great reply and great advice - thank you.
I've read some posts about a TSB (ENU #1726) issued by Porsche in February, 2006 for the replacement of the control piston in the oil pump, part number 997.107.125.01 or #4 seen below:
My car was built several months after February, 2006 so I suspect that I have a new piston, however.
If you had a broken relief valve spring the light would probably be on or flickering at idle when the engine is hot.
Don't let anyone sell you on the relief valve job without getting an oil pressure test done first.
Great reply and great advice - thank you.
I've read some posts about a TSB (ENU #1726) issued by Porsche in February, 2006 for the replacement of the control piston in the oil pump, part number 997.107.125.01 or #4 seen below:
My car was built several months after February, 2006 so I suspect that I have a new piston, however.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
When I changed the oil and first started the engine, I got a momentary "oil pressure low" warning on the dash. It lasted a second and went away before I could turn off the engine. I assume(d) that it was merely a slug of air going through the system that caused the warning.
This is normal until the engines pump picks up oil and the pressure sensor sees enough oil pressure to extinguish the light.
If you had a broken relief valve spring the light would probably be on or flickering at idle when the engine is hot.
Don't let anyone sell you on the relief valve job without getting an oil pressure test done first.
With this car and knowing they had some issues with the relief valve i would get a pressure test done and install a oil pressure gauge in the car.
Once your sure you have good pressure take it out and run the revs up and keep it there for a few min.
+1 get your pressure tested first all the way to fully working temp. When I had a stuck lifter it ticked when hot. They can collapse and need replacing. After an oil chnage it takes a second for the oil filter to fill and the oil galleries. The light flickering for a second is normal.
Quote:
When I changed the oil and first started the engine, I got a momentary "oil pressure low" warning on the dash. It lasted a second and went away before I could turn off the engine. I assume(d) that it was merely a slug of air going through the system that caused the warning.
This is normal until the engines pump picks up oil and the pressure sensor sees enough oil pressure to extinguish the light.
If you had a broken relief valve spring the light would probably be on or flickering at idle when the engine is hot.
Don't let anyone sell you on the relief valve job without getting an oil pressure test done first.
With this car and knowing they had some issues with the relief valve i would get a pressure test done and install a oil pressure gauge in the car.
Once your sure you have good pressure take it out and run the revs up and keep it there for a few min.
+1 get your pressure tested first all the way to fully working temp. When I had a stuck lifter it ticked when hot. They can collapse and need replacing. After an oil chnage it takes a second for the oil filter to fill and the oil galleries. The light flickering for a second is normal.
The dealer should be able to tell by the VIN number. It sounds like you maybe in the clear with this issue but double check.
Better safe than sorry when it comes to the engines heart.
Better safe than sorry when it comes to the engines heart.
italian tune up and some mmo.
The easiest, cheapest and fastest way to unstick lifters is a good motor flush product like Forte motor flush:
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=43/Advanced_Formula_Motor_Flush
I have used about 20-30 bottles of this stuff over the last 3 years working on cars with good results. It's usually the first thing done to imported used cars without adequate service history.
Just the other week a customer brought his car for an oil change that was ticking quite loudly due to having run too long on the same oil. I poured the flush in and ran it at high idle for 30mins as instructed and the tick was gone after 5 minutes.
Despite all the flushes-will-remove-large-chunks-of-sludge-and-destroy-your-engine horror stories floating around BITOG I have yet to see an engine damaged by an engine flush.
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=43/Advanced_Formula_Motor_Flush
I have used about 20-30 bottles of this stuff over the last 3 years working on cars with good results. It's usually the first thing done to imported used cars without adequate service history.
Just the other week a customer brought his car for an oil change that was ticking quite loudly due to having run too long on the same oil. I poured the flush in and ran it at high idle for 30mins as instructed and the tick was gone after 5 minutes.
Despite all the flushes-will-remove-large-chunks-of-sludge-and-destroy-your-engine horror stories floating around BITOG I have yet to see an engine damaged by an engine flush.
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
The easiest, cheapest and fastest way to unstick lifters is a good motor flush product like Forte motor flush:
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=43/Advanced_Formula_Motor_Flush
I have used about 20-30 bottles of this stuff over the last 3 years working on cars with good results. It's usually the first thing done to imported used cars without adequate service history.
Just the other week a customer brought his car for an oil change that was ticking quite loudly due to having run too long on the same oil. I poured the flush in and ran it at high idle for 30mins as instructed and the tick was gone after 5 minutes.
Despite all the flushes-will-remove-large-chunks-of-sludge-and-destroy-your-engine horror stories floating around BITOG I have yet to see an engine damaged by an engine flush.
Be extremely cautious with engine flushes. They can do more harm than good.
If it dislodges chunks these will clog up small oil galleries and make the matter worse.
If oil changes have been frequent with good filters flushes should not be necessary.
It's a risk FYI.
How accessible are the lifters on your Porsche?
On my alfa they are difficult to get at. The entire head needs to be removed but some car models can be accessed very easily and be replaced in an afternoon.
The easiest, cheapest and fastest way to unstick lifters is a good motor flush product like Forte motor flush:
http://www.forteuk.co.uk/product.php?id=43/Advanced_Formula_Motor_Flush
I have used about 20-30 bottles of this stuff over the last 3 years working on cars with good results. It's usually the first thing done to imported used cars without adequate service history.
Just the other week a customer brought his car for an oil change that was ticking quite loudly due to having run too long on the same oil. I poured the flush in and ran it at high idle for 30mins as instructed and the tick was gone after 5 minutes.
Despite all the flushes-will-remove-large-chunks-of-sludge-and-destroy-your-engine horror stories floating around BITOG I have yet to see an engine damaged by an engine flush.
Be extremely cautious with engine flushes. They can do more harm than good.
If it dislodges chunks these will clog up small oil galleries and make the matter worse.
If oil changes have been frequent with good filters flushes should not be necessary.
It's a risk FYI.
How accessible are the lifters on your Porsche?
On my alfa they are difficult to get at. The entire head needs to be removed but some car models can be accessed very easily and be replaced in an afternoon.
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Originally Posted By: DrivinWest
I really appreciate all the replies. As for OCI, the car only has 7300 miles on the odometer. I have records that indicate the oil has been changed annually since it rolled off the lot.The first 4 changes were with Mobil 1 0W-40, the latter 2 with PU 5W-40.
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
Pressure test is first order of business, can get mechanical gauge for less than $20 at parts store and hook it up makeshift by zip tying to cowl. Take it on a long drive, observe cold pressure. Once good and hot, observe idle and pressure at road speed or around 2000 rpm or so. Also observe needle movement with rpm change, should be positively correlated.
I really appreciate all the replies. As for OCI, the car only has 7300 miles on the odometer. I have records that indicate the oil has been changed annually since it rolled off the lot.The first 4 changes were with Mobil 1 0W-40, the latter 2 with PU 5W-40.
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
Pressure test is first order of business, can get mechanical gauge for less than $20 at parts store and hook it up makeshift by zip tying to cowl. Take it on a long drive, observe cold pressure. Once good and hot, observe idle and pressure at road speed or around 2000 rpm or so. Also observe needle movement with rpm change, should be positively correlated.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: DrivinWest
I really appreciate all the replies. As for OCI, the car only has 7300 miles on the odometer. I have records that indicate the oil has been changed annually since it rolled off the lot.The first 4 changes were with Mobil 1 0W-40, the latter 2 with PU 5W-40.
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
Pressure test is first order of business, can get mechanical gauge for less than $20 at parts store and hook it up makeshift by zip tying to cowl. Take it on a long drive, observe cold pressure. Once good and hot, observe idle and pressure at road speed or around 2000 rpm or so. Also observe needle movement with rpm change, should be positively correlated.
+1 on the oil changes. But lifters can fail due to manufacturing failures even if you change your oil regularly. It's quite common.
Remember oil pressure is non-linear with rpm.
It will increase rapidly and then the increase will slow down quickly. Cold oil pressure doesn't mean much unless you have a bypass valve failing of course. Hot pressure is always critical.
Originally Posted By: DrivinWest
I really appreciate all the replies. As for OCI, the car only has 7300 miles on the odometer. I have records that indicate the oil has been changed annually since it rolled off the lot.The first 4 changes were with Mobil 1 0W-40, the latter 2 with PU 5W-40.
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
Pressure test is first order of business, can get mechanical gauge for less than $20 at parts store and hook it up makeshift by zip tying to cowl. Take it on a long drive, observe cold pressure. Once good and hot, observe idle and pressure at road speed or around 2000 rpm or so. Also observe needle movement with rpm change, should be positively correlated.
+1 on the oil changes. But lifters can fail due to manufacturing failures even if you change your oil regularly. It's quite common.
Remember oil pressure is non-linear with rpm.
It will increase rapidly and then the increase will slow down quickly. Cold oil pressure doesn't mean much unless you have a bypass valve failing of course. Hot pressure is always critical.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
With that little mileage on the car, chances are it probably was run just a couple blocks at a time, and put back, for several more months before being used again.
All it takes is a good bit of fuel dilution, being put away good and hot, and left to sit for quite a few months, and the oil can and will bleed out of the lifter, and whatever residue is left can gum up, leading to a stuck lifter.
I owned a '98 Boxster for several years, so I have done a ton of research on the engine, and all of its shortcomings. The best thing you can do for the car is drive it a lot, in higher revs.
If you wanted to try the high rpm thing, go our on a major highway, set the cruise control to the speed limit, and leave the car in 3rd gear, and drive for 30 minutes or so. If the lifter is going to get freed up, this is the way its going to happen.
Usually, it doesn't happen.
Normal repair is to take it apart, or simply to replace it.
And that's not as easy of a task as it sounds, as its not an easy cylinder head design to take things apart and put them back together.
BC.
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
With that little mileage on the car, chances are it probably was run just a couple blocks at a time, and put back, for several more months before being used again.
All it takes is a good bit of fuel dilution, being put away good and hot, and left to sit for quite a few months, and the oil can and will bleed out of the lifter, and whatever residue is left can gum up, leading to a stuck lifter.
I owned a '98 Boxster for several years, so I have done a ton of research on the engine, and all of its shortcomings. The best thing you can do for the car is drive it a lot, in higher revs.
If you wanted to try the high rpm thing, go our on a major highway, set the cruise control to the speed limit, and leave the car in 3rd gear, and drive for 30 minutes or so. If the lifter is going to get freed up, this is the way its going to happen.
Usually, it doesn't happen.
Normal repair is to take it apart, or simply to replace it.
And that's not as easy of a task as it sounds, as its not an easy cylinder head design to take things apart and put them back together.
BC.
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
With that little mileage on the car, chances are it probably was run just a couple blocks at a time, and put back, for several more months before being used again.
All it takes is a good bit of fuel dilution, being put away good and hot, and left to sit for quite a few months, and the oil can and will bleed out of the lifter, and whatever residue is left can gum up, leading to a stuck lifter.
I owned a '98 Boxster for several years, so I have done a ton of research on the engine, and all of its shortcomings. The best thing you can do for the car is drive it a lot, in higher revs.
If you wanted to try the high rpm thing, go our on a major highway, set the cruise control to the speed limit, and leave the car in 3rd gear, and drive for 30 minutes or so. If the lifter is going to get freed up, this is the way its going to happen.
Usually, it doesn't happen.
Normal repair is to take it apart, or simply to replace it.
And that's not as easy of a task as it sounds, as its not an easy cylinder head design to take things apart and put them back together.
BC.
+1 about the boxers needing high revs. The alfa boxer is the same. It does not like to be driven at low revs all the time. It likes to be pushed and is designed for that.
Especially the ones running on carbs.
The lifters on my boxer seem to run much better so far on synthetic rather than on mineral, also with a good zddp level.
I had to replace all of mine plus the camshafts due to a couple of broken tappets. The flat tappets can destroy the cam lobes if they fail. The flat surface literally gets smashed in creating a concave surface.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Total miles on the car are 7300 with 4 oil changes. That means that the OCIs have been less than 2000 miles each. There is no way that the lifters could be gummed up unless the car was run half a block at a time, which would put all kinds of bad stuff in the oil.
With that little mileage on the car, chances are it probably was run just a couple blocks at a time, and put back, for several more months before being used again.
All it takes is a good bit of fuel dilution, being put away good and hot, and left to sit for quite a few months, and the oil can and will bleed out of the lifter, and whatever residue is left can gum up, leading to a stuck lifter.
I owned a '98 Boxster for several years, so I have done a ton of research on the engine, and all of its shortcomings. The best thing you can do for the car is drive it a lot, in higher revs.
If you wanted to try the high rpm thing, go our on a major highway, set the cruise control to the speed limit, and leave the car in 3rd gear, and drive for 30 minutes or so. If the lifter is going to get freed up, this is the way its going to happen.
Usually, it doesn't happen.
Normal repair is to take it apart, or simply to replace it.
And that's not as easy of a task as it sounds, as its not an easy cylinder head design to take things apart and put them back together.
BC.
+1 about the boxers needing high revs. The alfa boxer is the same. It does not like to be driven at low revs all the time. It likes to be pushed and is designed for that.
Especially the ones running on carbs.
The lifters on my boxer seem to run much better so far on synthetic rather than on mineral, also with a good zddp level.
I had to replace all of mine plus the camshafts due to a couple of broken tappets. The flat tappets can destroy the cam lobes if they fail. The flat surface literally gets smashed in creating a concave surface.
Originally Posted By: Brit33
Remember oil pressure is non-linear with rpm.
Good point, you can map the hot oil pressure through the rpm range and up to the relief valve opening should get a curve that arcs up above a straight line drawn through from idle pressure to the pressure where the relief valve opens. I only ask what is cold pressure since it is easy enough to read and on the rare chance that it is way off, like very low if the relief valve were stuck open.
Remember oil pressure is non-linear with rpm.
Good point, you can map the hot oil pressure through the rpm range and up to the relief valve opening should get a curve that arcs up above a straight line drawn through from idle pressure to the pressure where the relief valve opens. I only ask what is cold pressure since it is easy enough to read and on the rare chance that it is way off, like very low if the relief valve were stuck open.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: Brit33
Remember oil pressure is non-linear with rpm.
Good point, you can map the hot oil pressure through the rpm range and up to the relief valve opening should get a curve that arcs up above a straight line drawn through from idle pressure to the pressure where the relief valve opens. I only ask what is cold pressure since it is easy enough to read and on the rare chance that it is way off, like very low if the relief valve were stuck open.
Yes also when I said bypass I was referring to relief valve as you said.
Mine begins to open at about 55 psi and fully opens at 87 psi.
So I see the pressure at 55 @4000 rpm and really need to push it to get to 60 when hot. Doesn't tend to go over 60 when hot.
Cold it will jump up to 88 psi at very low revs with a 10w oil.
Originally Posted By: Brit33
Remember oil pressure is non-linear with rpm.
Good point, you can map the hot oil pressure through the rpm range and up to the relief valve opening should get a curve that arcs up above a straight line drawn through from idle pressure to the pressure where the relief valve opens. I only ask what is cold pressure since it is easy enough to read and on the rare chance that it is way off, like very low if the relief valve were stuck open.
Yes also when I said bypass I was referring to relief valve as you said.
Mine begins to open at about 55 psi and fully opens at 87 psi.
So I see the pressure at 55 @4000 rpm and really need to push it to get to 60 when hot. Doesn't tend to go over 60 when hot.
Cold it will jump up to 88 psi at very low revs with a 10w oil.
Well, it's NOT the oil pressure relief valve piston. A new one was installed and the problem has persisted.
This is a video of the engine at idle. Ignore what I said about it coming from the "top, middle, rear" as I really can't pinpoint it:
FWIW, I did a BlackStone analysis on the prior change:
This is a video of the engine at idle. Ignore what I said about it coming from the "top, middle, rear" as I really can't pinpoint it:
FWIW, I did a BlackStone analysis on the prior change:
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Wow, that's weird. Almost sounds like a spark plug boot is laying loose and the current shorting to the block.
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Wow, that's weird. Almost sounds like a spark plug boot is laying loose and the current shorting to the block.
I had the shop replace the spark plugs while there were in there (the video is before the spark plug swap).
The fact that it happened right after I changed the oil and filter has me especially perplexed.
Wow, that's weird. Almost sounds like a spark plug boot is laying loose and the current shorting to the block.
I had the shop replace the spark plugs while there were in there (the video is before the spark plug swap).
The fact that it happened right after I changed the oil and filter has me especially perplexed.
There were/are lots of Porsche lifter designs.
I don't know what you have.
In older engines in days past, MMO was commonly used to clean things out [small passages in lifters were often helped].
And it worked.
I do not recommend MMO in the crankcase unless there is a known problem. And here, you do have a problem that may be attenuated with proper MMO use.
It is a far better solution than simply using a slightly thinner oil. BTW, I would not race around with it in the crankcase, either.
I don't know what you have.
In older engines in days past, MMO was commonly used to clean things out [small passages in lifters were often helped].
And it worked.
I do not recommend MMO in the crankcase unless there is a known problem. And here, you do have a problem that may be attenuated with proper MMO use.
It is a far better solution than simply using a slightly thinner oil. BTW, I would not race around with it in the crankcase, either.
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