Using a 10/40 high mileage oil in a Toyota vvti

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liberty

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I have a 2005 toyota avalon with a 3.5 l vvti engine. It has 65k miles. It has the classic timing cover oil leak which was a common problem with this engine. It has seen mobil one 5w30 since new. I ran a 10w40 oil and it greatly slows the oil leak. Iam not going to fix the leak since it is 20 hrs labor. My concern is if the 10/40 oil is too thick fir the vvti engine? If not i will switch to mobil one HM 10w40. It has a viscosity index at 100c of 16 compared to 11 for a 5w30.
 
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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Why not a HM 5W30, like Maxlife or similar? There's always a good deal on it somewhere.


agreed ^^^^^
 
Havoline HM 5W-30 is about as thick as you will find for SN rated passenger car motor oil, at least according to the product data sheets.

I had the same timing cover leak on my 2006 Lexus IS350 3.5, but mine started seeping around 135,000 miles. Plan on keeping the car, so I had mine fixed, and yes it's expensive, but it's a whole lot better than car payments.
 
The gas mileage issue does not concern me. Fixing it is not an option. The 10w30 and 5w30 mobil 1 hm have the same index at 100 c. Does anybody have any facts concerning the use of a 10w40 in a vvti being an issue? I did a little reading and it appears that in europe, the same engines do spec either 40 or 50 wt oils. I was also thinking of mobil 1 0w40. It has a 12.9 index at 100c. A low index 40wt.
 
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The VVTi may just retard cam timing a bit earlier than with the 30. You May notice some loss of midrange torque but gain some upper-midrange to high RPM torque. OTW VVT will be activated by solenoid for idle and cold start.


Actually the VVT feed port screen(filter) is likely blocked already with detritus.

You drove it with the 40, does it run OK? I be happier with this in a stick car than an auto.
Remember as the car warms from cool, the kinematic viscosity of a 30 grade is in the "thousands"
 
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Originally Posted By: liberty
Fixing it is not an option.

Get it fixed.


The TSB on this "fix" should be 12.4 hours. If they quoted you 20 hours, they were looking to skim the cream... or they did not know what they were doing.

Next, letting it "leak" will cause issues down the road. Look up "timing chine cover leak" and "power steering (or R&P) boot". This leak will cause the PS to fail. The oil leak can and will cause other BIG repairs down the line. It is known to cause even more havoc. Sure, you could be looking at $1500-2000 for the initial repair, but if it compromises the PS and items in that area, you could double your bill.

I don't know about the 3.5 MZ engines, but the smaller ZZ engines did not like thicker oil. I am always weary about toyotas going up to 40w oil. 10w30 would be about as heavy as I would go...
 
Like I said fixing it is not going to happen. This started with a question regarding 40wt and a vvti engine. So far no one has answered that with any fact of the matter except maybe one.The question still stands regarding a 40 wt in a vvti engine. Periodically rinsing the area with a warm hose eliminates any collateral damage. The car has been leaking for 8 years and so far there is no additional damage. My understandingi is a 10w30 and a 5w30 have the same index at 100c. The second number is what counts
 
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Originally Posted By: liberty
Like I said fixing it is not going to happen. This started with a question regarding 40wt and a vvti engine. So far no one has answered that with any fact of the matter except maybe one.The question still stands regarding a 40 wt in a vvti engine. Periodically rinsing the area with a warm hose eliminates any collateral damage. The car has been leaking for 8 years and so far there is no additional damage. My understandingi is a 10w30 and a 5w30 have the same index at 100c. The second number is what counts


So does the vvti system go into "bypass" or in some way deactivate when cold? If not, then the somewhat thicker oil isn't going to make any difference. Either of the oils is much, much thicker when cold than any difference between the two grades.
 
I don't know much about VVT technical details but I think the system is based mainly on oil pressure and engine speed. Thus, the VVT is designed around an optimal oil rating. So, I think a heavier winter weight oil would not be optimal when the engine's cold and a x40 oil wouldn't be optimal when at operating temperature because it'll create higher oil pressure at lower engine speed. I would think a 10W-40 wouldn't be optimal in cold nor standard operating temperature since it may affect the timing of the system. I'd try to stick to a high mileage formulation in 5W-30 and just keep it topped off once in awhile. Like I said, take that for what it's worth, I don't know the technical aspects of the VVT.
 
If you already tried 10/40 and you found no down side with the 10/40, I'd just keep using it. My '13 Jeep Wrangler says to use 5/20, I run Mobil 1 0/40 and my engine runs better on 0/40 than it did on 5/20 especially when I'm off road.

ROD
 
Here's a science experiment for all: go to your local auto parts store, pick up a quart/litre bottle of 5w30 in one hand and 10w40 in the other. Line them up side by side with the windows facing you. Now tilt them back an forth then report back here what you observed.
 
Originally Posted By: liberty
.... The 10w30 and 5w30 mobil 1 hm have the same index at 100 c. Does anybody have any facts concerning the use of a 10w40 in a vvti being an issue? I did a little reading and it appears that in europe, the same engines do spec either 40 or 50 wt oils. I was also thinking of mobil 1 0w40. It has a 12.9 index at 100c. A low index 40wt.

In Malaysia, substantial number of vehicles with used Toyota VVTi's operates normally with xW40 and xW50.
If ever there IS an VVTi issue with a xW40 in your applications,it happens momentarily after a very cold start ...... for a duration of a minute or two in terms of (harmless) firing timing ..... which I'm skeptical of.
Use it with peace of mind, IMHO.
 
My parents have a 2005 Avalon and use the 5w30 synthetic since new and at 260k miles with hardly any oil loss.

Fix the oil leak, because a higher viscosity oil will not stop or slow the leak and might make starting the car a bid harder to do.

Always fix the mechanical problem, because a liquid (oil) cannot possibly fix any repair of a gasket. Also any work on this car is going to be rare, but intense, so worth driving around the country. Enjoy it!
 
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After reading all the responses it will be a 40 wt. Either 10 or 0 wt. I will sound off once more but Repair is not an option. If 40 and 50 wt oils with vvti are good overseas than ithey certainly are here. And yes, thicker oils leak less(Fluid dynamics). Thanks for all the input.
 
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