Usefullnes of Max Performance Summer Tire ?

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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
It always kills me seeing a very nice car with junk tires. Its like putting on a $5k suite with Walmart shoes.


Agreed. But IMHO it tells you how the car is probably driven. Somebody who drives their car cares about brakes, tires, oil....etc. When I see Chinese plastic tires on a nice euro sled or something like a Corvette I immediately feel that this is a person who has that car for the image it projects not the performance/capability that it can provide.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
It always kills me seeing a very nice car with junk tires. Its like putting on a $5k suite with Walmart shoes.


Agreed. But IMHO it tells you how the car is probably driven. Somebody who drives their car cares about brakes, tires, oil....etc. When I see Chinese plastic tires on a nice euro sled or something like a Corvette I immediately feel that this is a person who has that car for the image it projects not the performance/capability that it can provide.

One time I came up behind 2 cars at red light, Porsche Panamera S on left lane and Toyota Prius on right lane. About 1/4 mile ahead the right lane merges into left and becomes 1 lane.

The Prius was accelerate slower than most economy cars, probably as slow as a Prius can do. The high performance Porsche Panamera S accelerated at a rate of 0 to 50 MPH of 1 minute or longer, at the merge point the Prius was about 250-300 ft ahead of the Panamera, and the distance kept getting longer as we drove. I made a mistake in assuming that a Porsche should accelerate faster than a Prius, so I was behind it and hoped that he would drive his car as it is designed for and we would have a blast through the mountain road. BIG MISTAKE !!!

Should the driver of this Porsche Panamera S owner have the highest performance tire that should be fit his car ? For his driving style any el-cheapo made in China is more than he can handle.

For someone who posted that comparing Michelin PSS with Kumho 4X is laughable. I didn't try to comparing these tires, what I tried to say was even with second tier all-season tire I could not use 60-70% its capable more than 1% of my daily driving, with a much better tire like Michelin PSS I would be even more frustrated for not be able to use what it can do 99.9% of my driving in So Cal.

Just think about this case: you have good car with good tire and stuck behind some slow porkers doing 20-25 MPH below speed limit(as slow as 30 MPH on 55 MPH state highway) on 2-way mountain road that you are not allowed to pass.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
It always kills me seeing a very nice car with junk tires. Its like putting on a $5k suite with Walmart shoes.


Agreed. But IMHO it tells you how the car is probably driven. Somebody who drives their car cares about brakes, tires, oil....etc. When I see Chinese plastic tires on a nice euro sled or something like a Corvette I immediately feel that this is a person who has that car for the image it projects not the performance/capability that it can provide.

One time I came up behind 2 cars at red light, Porsche Panamera S on left lane and Toyota Prius on right lane. About 1/4 mile ahead the right lane merges into left and becomes 1 lane.

The Prius was accelerate slower than most economy cars, probably as slow as a Prius can do. The high performance Porsche Panamera S accelerated at a rate of 0 to 50 MPH of 1 minute or longer, at the merge point the Prius was about 250-300 ft ahead of the Panamera, and the distance kept getting longer as we drove. I made a mistake in assuming that a Porsche should accelerate faster than a Prius, so I was behind it and hoped that he would drive his car as it is designed for and we would have a blast through the mountain road. BIG MISTAKE !!!

Should the driver of this Porsche Panamera S owner have the highest performance tire that should be fit his car ? For his driving style any el-cheapo made in China is more than he can handle.

For someone who posted that comparing Michelin PSS with Kumho 4X is laughable. I didn't try to comparing these tires, what I tried to say was even with second tier all-season tire I could not use 60-70% its capable more than 1% of my daily driving, with a much better tire like Michelin PSS I would be even more frustrated for not be able to use what it can do 99.9% of my driving in So Cal.

Just think about this case: you have good car with good tire and stuck behind some slow porkers doing 20-25 MPH below speed limit(as slow as 30 MPH on 55 MPH state highway) on 2-way mountain road that you are not allowed to pass.


I don't think about it that way at all, rather the inverse. When I DO go to use my car "as intended" I would be frustrated to have a tire that cannot perform to my expectations. Instead, I have a tire that CAN and DOES, and when I am not using that way, I'm rolling around on a tire that has great ride characteristics and smooth operation.
 
Same argument can be used for brakes, shocks etc. Even air conditioning...

I use my air conditioning maybe 2 months of the year... so I don't really NEED it...but I want it on those really hot days we do get...

And a premium high performance tire usually has a better "feel..." ... firm, solid and responsive... something that will be noticeable to an "in touch..." driver even at 6 or 7/10's.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I don't think about it that way at all, rather the inverse. When I DO go to use my car "as intended" I would be frustrated to have a tire that cannot perform to my expectations. Instead, I have a tire that CAN and DOES, and when I am not using that way, I'm rolling around on a tire that has great ride characteristics and smooth operation.

Agreed. Buy a tire based on the most demanding conditions you will experience. Any tire can handle the non-demanding conditions.

Of course, the type of demanding conditions one is likely to experience will to an extent be dictated by the vehicle's performance and the way one drives.
 
Let say you buy one of the best max performance summer tire Michelin PSS for your car, and went to Tail Of The Dragon and stuck behind slow porkers(10-20 MPH below speed limit) all the 10-15 miles drive, you go back another time and the same thing happens, what do you think ? How do you feel about driving 20-30 MPH below what you like (without getting ticket) with your max performance tire ?

I understand your point of view about having the best tire so you will be able to do what you like when you be able to do it, but my point is that chance is so rare that the capability of the tire is almost never explored.

I think that the difference in performance between the best and the worse tire on straight highway at reasonable speed of around 80-90 MPH is very little, only when you go on to winding road at the speed you like to drive (without slow drivers slow you down) then you will feel the big difference.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I understand your point of view about having the best tire so you will be able to do what you like when you be able to do it, but my point is that chance is so rare that the capability of the tire is almost never explored.

It's a personal decision everyone has to make. Some people choose not to buy insurance because they almost never get into accidents.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Let say you buy one of the best max performance summer tire Michelin PSS for your car, and went to Tail Of The Dragon and stuck behind slow porkers(10-20 MPH below speed limit) all the 10-15 miles drive, you go back another time and the same thing happens, what do you think ? How do you feel about driving 20-30 MPH below what you like (without getting ticket) with your max performance tire ?

Just fine. Because if something bad happens and I have to swerve or stop, I have that much more margin for safety.

And it'll still ride well and run quietly.

And when the tire is worn, I'll know it'll still work.


Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I understand your point of view about having the best tire so you will be able to do what you like when you be able to do it, but my point is that chance is so rare that the capability of the tire is almost never explored.

You only have to run out of grip once for something bad to happen.


Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I think that the difference in performance between the best and the worse tire on straight highway at reasonable speed of around 80-90 MPH is very little, only when you go on to winding road at the speed you like to drive (without slow drivers slow you down) then you will feel the big difference.

Well yeah. But again, face one bad driver or giant puddle on that straight highway, and your tire's grip suddenly becomes a lot more important.

Plus, some of the biggest differences I've seen between top-tier and worse tires has been on leisurely highway cruises. As in, I can HAVE a leisurely highway cruise with the top-tier tire, but I can't with the cheaper tire because it's noisy, or it has poor on-center feel and stability, or it rides poorly, or it falls out of balance as it wears.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR


I think that the difference in performance between the best and the worse tire on straight highway at reasonable speed of around 80-90 MPH is very little, only when you go on to winding road at the speed you like to drive (without slow drivers slow you down) then you will feel the big difference.


Ummm, NO.

Having driven a full tread depth, R speed rated Nokian RSI ( like a zillion full depth sipes...) tire on the highway, I can tell you that straight line stability at high (ish) speeds was very poor... 70 mph was about the max speed you could drive these, and pray that you didn't need to make a panic lane change...

At half tread depth, they were much, much better in a straight line, but started losing grip in severe winter conditions...
 
Problem with cheap tyres is that they are unpredictable on limit. I have some cheap Dayton POS on my Escort and their performance is inconsistent. Sometimes they grip moderately faire in wet conditions, sometimes they loose grip at 20mph.
HTSS TR, if you can't use full benefits of UHP tyres due to a traffic congestion, maybe you should look for touring summer tyres like Turanza and so.
 
One of the best rated/tested UHPAS the last several years was/is Continental DWS, I had it on my E430 and to me it was the worse tire I ever had of all the tires I had on all my cars the last 20-30 years.

Summer driving at 85-95 MPH on I15 to Vegas was fairly scary, the car seemed wandering at slight turn and didn't track well on straight. When wet it was scary to drive above 70 MPH. Before DWS, I didn't have any problem at 110-120 MPH with Falken FK-452 and with Kumho 4X.

The lasted tire is Kumho 4X, this tire is way better than DWS. Currently the front is 3/32" and rear is 4/32", 2 weeks ago we had some rain in So Cal and the car didn't have any problem with wet road at 80 MPH. On dry surface the car is stable and very low tire noise at 85-90 MPH.

All tires I had on my E430 and S2000 have similar pressure around 36PSI Front 34PSI rear for E430, 34PSI front and 32PSI rear for S2000.

From my past experiences with various tire brands and performance categories, I would buy Max Performance Summer especially the Michelin PSS if I can utilize its potential more than 4-5% of the time I own it. But with much lower performance tire such as Kumho 4X I could not use its potential more than 1% of the time I drove on winding mountain road.

It's very much similar to owning a biggest SUV and don't haul anything larger than a 5-10 gallon cooler more than one every 5-10 years. A compact SUV can easily carry that cooler without problem, and rent a truck once every 5-10 years to haul larger item isn't much expensive either.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
One of the best rated/tested UHPAS the last several years was/is Continental DWS, I had it on my E430 and to me it was the worse tire I ever had of all the tires I had on all my cars the last 20-30 years.

Summer driving at 85-95 MPH on I15 to Vegas was fairly scary, the car seemed wandering at slight turn and didn't track well on straight. When wet it was scary to drive above 70 MPH. Before DWS, I didn't have any problem at 110-120 MPH with Falken FK-452 and with Kumho 4X.

The lasted tire is Kumho 4X, this tire is way better than DWS. Currently the front is 3/32" and rear is 4/32", 2 weeks ago we had some rain in So Cal and the car didn't have any problem with wet road at 80 MPH. On dry surface the car is stable and very low tire noise at 85-90 MPH.

All tires I had on my E430 and S2000 have similar pressure around 36PSI Front 34PSI rear for E430, 34PSI front and 32PSI rear for S2000.

From my past experiences with various tire brands and performance categories, I would buy Max Performance Summer especially the Michelin PSS if I can utilize its potential more than 4-5% of the time I own it. But with much lower performance tire such as Kumho 4X I could not use its potential more than 1% of the time I drove on winding mountain road.

It's very much similar to owning a biggest SUV and don't haul anything larger than a 5-10 gallon cooler more than one every 5-10 years. A compact SUV can easily carry that cooler without problem, and rent a truck once every 5-10 years to haul larger item isn't much expensive either.


It sounds like you are looking for excuses not to buy them TBH. They are not expensive for the performance they offer and the ride quality and drivability are fantastic, you've had multiple people who run these tires (myself included) speak as to their real world performance. They are a bloody bargain for what they offer.

That said, I don't see them in your size on TireRack anyways. I see the A/S3's which would cost you about $80.00 more. We have those on the Charger and they are great but definitely not as sticky as the PSS.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
It sounds like you are looking for excuses not to buy them TBH. They are not expensive for the performance they offer and the ride quality and drivability are fantastic, you've had multiple people who run these tires (myself included) speak as to their real world performance. They are a bloody bargain for what they offer.

That said, I don't see them in your size on TireRack anyways. I see the A/S3's which would cost you about $80.00 more. We have those on the Charger and they are great but definitely not as sticky as the PSS.

You're probably right. Look like I try looking for excuses not to buy best performance tire for my cars, S2000 and E430, or may be I afraid with better tire I may drive more aggressive and getting into trouble with the laws.

As of now I think with current cheap tires on my E430 and S2000 I tend to drive a little less crazy(but still a little faster than traffic), therefore less chance to get flashing light behind my window.

Believe me, there is nothing better than open top cruising in a warm sunny afternoon(we have about 340-350 days like that a year) on winding mountain road.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
One of the best rated/tested UHPAS the last several years was/is Continental DWS, I had it on my E430 and to me it was the worse tire I ever had of all the tires I had on all my cars the last 20-30 years.

Summer driving at 85-95 MPH on I15 to Vegas was fairly scary, the car seemed wandering at slight turn and didn't track well on straight. When wet it was scary to drive above 70 MPH. Before DWS, I didn't have any problem at 110-120 MPH with Falken FK-452 and with Kumho 4X.

The lasted tire is Kumho 4X, this tire is way better than DWS. Currently the front is 3/32" and rear is 4/32", 2 weeks ago we had some rain in So Cal and the car didn't have any problem with wet road at 80 MPH. On dry surface the car is stable and very low tire noise at 85-90 MPH.

All tires I had on my E430 and S2000 have similar pressure around 36PSI Front 34PSI rear for E430, 34PSI front and 32PSI rear for S2000.

From my past experiences with various tire brands and performance categories, I would buy Max Performance Summer especially the Michelin PSS if I can utilize its potential more than 4-5% of the time I own it. But with much lower performance tire such as Kumho 4X I could not use its potential more than 1% of the time I drove on winding mountain road.

It's very much similar to owning a biggest SUV and don't haul anything larger than a 5-10 gallon cooler more than one every 5-10 years. A compact SUV can easily carry that cooler without problem, and rent a truck once every 5-10 years to haul larger item isn't much expensive either.

Have DWS on Tiguan last 2 1/2 years, never had those issues!
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Let say you buy one of the best max performance summer tire Michelin PSS for your car, and went to Tail Of The Dragon and stuck behind slow porkers(10-20 MPH below speed limit) all the 10-15 miles drive, you go back another time and the same thing happens, what do you think ? How do you feel about driving 20-30 MPH below what you like (without getting ticket) with your max performance tire ?

I understand your point of view about having the best tire so you will be able to do what you like when you be able to do it, but my point is that chance is so rare that the capability of the tire is almost never explored.

I think that the difference in performance between the best and the worse tire on straight highway at reasonable speed of around 80-90 MPH is very little, only when you go on to winding road at the speed you like to drive (without slow drivers slow you down) then you will feel the big difference.


How many times are you going to vent about other's driving habits and effectively say "These people drive so slow. Why should I spend money on good tires?" Are we discussing tires here or whining about California being crowded?
 
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Let say you buy one of the best max performance summer tire Michelin PSS for your car, and went to Tail Of The Dragon and stuck behind slow porkers(10-20 MPH below speed limit) all the 10-15 miles drive, you go back another time and the same thing happens, what do you think ? How do you feel about driving 20-30 MPH below what you like (without getting ticket) with your max performance tire ?

I understand your point of view about having the best tire so you will be able to do what you like when you be able to do it, but my point is that chance is so rare that the capability of the tire is almost never explored.

I think that the difference in performance between the best and the worse tire on straight highway at reasonable speed of around 80-90 MPH is very little, only when you go on to winding road at the speed you like to drive (without slow drivers slow you down) then you will feel the big difference.


How many times are you going to vent about other's driving habits and effectively say "These people drive so slow. Why should I spend money on good tires?" Are we discussing tires here or whining about California being crowded?

I lived in San Diego, and found back roads as great to do some spirited/fast driving.
 
Quote:
The problem is more than 98-99% of the time there is no traffic that you can use more than 50-60% of the capacity of the Max Performance Summer Tire.
I think you are missing the fact that 99% of the time, you could not use more than 50% capacity of your car without risking losing the license or worse.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
The problem is more than 98-99% of the time there is no traffic that you can use more than 50-60% of the capacity of the Max Performance Summer Tire.
I think you are missing the fact that 99% of the time, you could not use more than 50% capacity of your car without risking losing the license or worse.

It is bogus argument from the beginning.
I will warm up my Michelin PSS to proper temperature after 10 miles on 70 degrees weather. At 60mph they will have much shorter braking distance then ANY all season tire.
ADAC, that does biggest tire tests in the world (and most complex) never tests Max performance or winter or touring tires in category: how they brake from 200 mph, but how they brake from 60mph.
All I know is, when I put PSS on my CC, after all-season Kumho's that some "brain" put in dealership where I bought a car, is that I felt like I am driving completely different car, precisely bcs I felt that car dramatically increased braking power, I could actually brake in wet (which was a hit or miss with Kumho's). Best thing: PSS in Costco is $122 after $70 rebate for all 4 tires for 235/45 R17. I do not want even to look other tires.
So driving max performance tires makes sense if you drive on HWY, curvy roads etc. If you spend 90% of time driving 3 miles to the work and back, take a bus!
 
I think you can replicate almost all the safety advantages of a high performance tire, just by slowing down a little. Even trimming 5mph gives you more time to react and still have an equal braking distance.
But that price is impressive for those tires, I'll have to check our Costco to see if they come even close to that. I suspect it would be $200-300 more up here for a set.
 
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