Are those worth considering? I know they will not be fast but they should be quite cheap as generally people avoid them. Is their reliability better, worse or same as the corresponding big brother? I also believe that in general, they would have been purchased by different demographics and would have been treated pretty gently during the ownership. There will be huge empty space in the engine bay to work on it. I am aware that I need to avoid those "Eta" engines but are there other similar pitfalls?
Used BMW 5-series with small engines
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How old are we talking? The difference between most of the x25, x28, and x30 models in recent years is just tuning software so they're all the same engines.
Actually, since 1997, BMW has used 3 "small" engines in the 5 series. These are 2.5L, 2.8L, and 3.0L.
Last year my uncle turned in his 2007 528XI he had on a lease, never had a single problem with it in 3 years not even a light bulb.
Went OK, not a rocket ship but more than enough power for normal driving.
A 550I with a 6spd is more my style.
Went OK, not a rocket ship but more than enough power for normal driving.
A 550I with a 6spd is more my style.
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
Actually, since 1997, BMW has used 3 "small" engines in the 5 series. These are 2.5L, 2.8L, and 3.0L.
They're all the same engine to the best of my knowledge.
Actually, since 1997, BMW has used 3 "small" engines in the 5 series. These are 2.5L, 2.8L, and 3.0L.
They're all the same engine to the best of my knowledge.
Oh and since you live in snow country get an AWD version, they go like stink in the white stuff with good tires. I nailed my uncles up his driveway with 6in of unplowed snow on it and the traction aid's kicked on and it pulled straight and true. The A6 did similar, Infiniti G35 was a joke, to RWD biased and to simple an AWD system.
The Germans seem to have the best AWD system and traction aid's, you can make some really bonehead moves in them and they will save you. Think point and floor it and the computer will figure out the rest.
Put winter tires on it since they come with summer performance and it will do better than most trucks.
The Germans seem to have the best AWD system and traction aid's, you can make some really bonehead moves in them and they will save you. Think point and floor it and the computer will figure out the rest.
Put winter tires on it since they come with summer performance and it will do better than most trucks.
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Oh and since you live in snow country get an AWD version, they go like stink in the white stuff with good tires.
Mine is RWD and with proper winter tires I've never had any problems during Chicago winters.
I've heard from many people that the AWD BMWs don't offer the same handling/driving dynamics as the RWD ones. Whether that's really true or not, I can't say as I've never driven an AWD BMW.
Oh and since you live in snow country get an AWD version, they go like stink in the white stuff with good tires.
Mine is RWD and with proper winter tires I've never had any problems during Chicago winters.
I've heard from many people that the AWD BMWs don't offer the same handling/driving dynamics as the RWD ones. Whether that's really true or not, I can't say as I've never driven an AWD BMW.
^ I've found pretty much any AWD car doesn't quite match the driving dynamic of a true RWD setup. I also agree that until the snow gets deep enough to run out of ground clearance, most RWD cars with good weight balance (BMWs are all close to 50/50) and good snow tires will do just fine.
Also, the 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0, while of the same family of I6 engines, are certainly different engines, not the same unit with different programming.
Also, the 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0, while of the same family of I6 engines, are certainly different engines, not the same unit with different programming.
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Also, the 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0, while of the same family of I6 engines, are certainly different engines, not the same unit with different programming.
Being technical you are of course correct, but to the point of his question regarding reliability - they are all the same engine with slightly modified bores, strokes, and programming. One won't be a bright spot over another.
Also, the 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0, while of the same family of I6 engines, are certainly different engines, not the same unit with different programming.
Being technical you are of course correct, but to the point of his question regarding reliability - they are all the same engine with slightly modified bores, strokes, and programming. One won't be a bright spot over another.
Yeah, the reliability of all these I6 engines mentioned above should be about the same. In general these I6 engines were more reliable and somewhat cheaper to maintain than the V8 engines of the same era (ie. the M62 engines in E39). The V8 ones were also slightly more prone to cooling system failures due to less space under the hood and overall higher temperatures under there. But even the I6 ones often suffer from cooling issues relatively early on. I've had a complete cooling system overhaul done on mine at 70K miles as things were starting to break down and leak left right and center.
With that said, we still don't know which platforms/years the OP is looking for. E60, E39, E34? He mentioned the "Eta" engine which dates back as far as E28 platform.
With that said, we still don't know which platforms/years the OP is looking for. E60, E39, E34? He mentioned the "Eta" engine which dates back as far as E28 platform.
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
^ I've found pretty much any AWD car doesn't quite match the driving dynamic of a true RWD setup.
With that said, my wife's C300 AWD Sport handles extremely well. It's very responsive and nimble. It actually handles way better than my 530i with sport susp.
The AWD system in MB is rear-biased though. I think it's 20/80 front/rear. Judging by tire wear, that sounds about right. Not sure about the power distribution of a BMW AWD system. Although it's not only about power distribution - some suspension components are different on AWD cars as well.
Now, if we're talking as far back as E28, then there was no AWD option available, so it's a moot point anyway.
^ I've found pretty much any AWD car doesn't quite match the driving dynamic of a true RWD setup.
With that said, my wife's C300 AWD Sport handles extremely well. It's very responsive and nimble. It actually handles way better than my 530i with sport susp.
The AWD system in MB is rear-biased though. I think it's 20/80 front/rear. Judging by tire wear, that sounds about right. Not sure about the power distribution of a BMW AWD system. Although it's not only about power distribution - some suspension components are different on AWD cars as well.
Now, if we're talking as far back as E28, then there was no AWD option available, so it's a moot point anyway.
I am thinking about something which will cost me between 5-10K. Surprisingly, I do not see too many 528 or 525 on the road at all. If I end up with a BMW, it will have snow tires for winter that is for sure. I even run snows on my Maxima.
I was not aware that 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0 share the same block. That means only reason I will choose 2.5 would be for its cheap price.
In this price range, I would be normally picking up a used Honda/Toyota but I am thinking I should take the plunge and try a BMW. They all would have close to or just over 100K. Would a 5-series give significantly more trouble over Honda/Toyota between its 100-200K run? Are they structurally better built (i.e. do not rust)? Any specific parts which tend to go at this mileage on a 5-series (e.g. cooling system issues, fuel pump issue, electrical gremlins?)
- Vikas
I was not aware that 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0 share the same block. That means only reason I will choose 2.5 would be for its cheap price.
In this price range, I would be normally picking up a used Honda/Toyota but I am thinking I should take the plunge and try a BMW. They all would have close to or just over 100K. Would a 5-series give significantly more trouble over Honda/Toyota between its 100-200K run? Are they structurally better built (i.e. do not rust)? Any specific parts which tend to go at this mileage on a 5-series (e.g. cooling system issues, fuel pump issue, electrical gremlins?)
- Vikas
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am thinking about something which will cost me between 5-10K.
So, an E39 then?
Quote:
In this price range, I would be normally picking up a used Honda/Toyota but I am thinking I should take the plunge and try a BMW. They all would have close to or just over 100K. Would a 5-series give significantly more trouble over Honda/Toyota between its 100-200K run?
Statistically, yes. They'll also require more preventative maintenance in general.
Quote:
Are they structurally better built (i.e. do not rust)?
All cars rust. Some of the BMWs may fare somewhat better in this respect than a Toyota/Honda, but it all really depends on how well a particular specimen was maintained and how quickly the salt was removed from it.
I think the main advantage of a BMW would be somewhat more satisfying driving experience, but to many people it's not a big enough difference to offset the higher upkeep costs.
Speaking of fun to drive, I'd skip the 525i. Look for a 530i or at least 528i. None of them are speed demons, but at least the higher displacement versions are able to get out of their own way. MPG is about the same on all 3.
Quote:
Any specific parts which tend to go at this mileage on a 5-series (e.g. cooling system issues, fuel pump issue, electrical gremlins?)
This page has some basic info:
http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=55
Also, check out this FAQ thread from BFC that has links to various common problems and fixes:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=895713
Cooling, VANOS, electrical issues are some of the more common problems.
I am thinking about something which will cost me between 5-10K.
So, an E39 then?
Quote:
In this price range, I would be normally picking up a used Honda/Toyota but I am thinking I should take the plunge and try a BMW. They all would have close to or just over 100K. Would a 5-series give significantly more trouble over Honda/Toyota between its 100-200K run?
Statistically, yes. They'll also require more preventative maintenance in general.
Quote:
Are they structurally better built (i.e. do not rust)?
All cars rust. Some of the BMWs may fare somewhat better in this respect than a Toyota/Honda, but it all really depends on how well a particular specimen was maintained and how quickly the salt was removed from it.
I think the main advantage of a BMW would be somewhat more satisfying driving experience, but to many people it's not a big enough difference to offset the higher upkeep costs.
Speaking of fun to drive, I'd skip the 525i. Look for a 530i or at least 528i. None of them are speed demons, but at least the higher displacement versions are able to get out of their own way. MPG is about the same on all 3.
Quote:
Any specific parts which tend to go at this mileage on a 5-series (e.g. cooling system issues, fuel pump issue, electrical gremlins?)
This page has some basic info:
http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=55
Also, check out this FAQ thread from BFC that has links to various common problems and fixes:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=895713
Cooling, VANOS, electrical issues are some of the more common problems.
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540i is another option.... V8 time!
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I am thinking about something which will cost me between 5-10K. Surprisingly, I do not see too many 528 or 525 on the road at all. If I end up with a BMW, it will have snow tires for winter that is for sure. I even run snows on my Maxima.
I was not aware that 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0 share the same block. That means only reason I will choose 2.5 would be for its cheap price.
In this price range, I would be normally picking up a used Honda/Toyota but I am thinking I should take the plunge and try a BMW. They all would have close to or just over 100K. Would a 5-series give significantly more trouble over Honda/Toyota between its 100-200K run? Are they structurally better built (i.e. do not rust)? Any specific parts which tend to go at this mileage on a 5-series (e.g. cooling system issues, fuel pump issue, electrical gremlins?)
- Vikas
Is a manual trans a requirement? If not, maybe have a look at the Lincoln LS cars(I think the V6's had a manual trans available?) , or maybe the LX Chryslers. I know the BMW guys will proclaim they have much better steering feel and handling but I think a regular 5 series isn't going to stun you with sharp handling, and the rare photos I see of a stock non-M BMW doing autocross, they have just about the same body roll as Corolla... Maybe a set of urethane bushings in the front suspension of an LX with a roll bar, will get you a much newer reliable better handling RWD car, I don't know, but it might be worth looking into.
Reading forums is easy research I find!
I am thinking about something which will cost me between 5-10K. Surprisingly, I do not see too many 528 or 525 on the road at all. If I end up with a BMW, it will have snow tires for winter that is for sure. I even run snows on my Maxima.
I was not aware that 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0 share the same block. That means only reason I will choose 2.5 would be for its cheap price.
In this price range, I would be normally picking up a used Honda/Toyota but I am thinking I should take the plunge and try a BMW. They all would have close to or just over 100K. Would a 5-series give significantly more trouble over Honda/Toyota between its 100-200K run? Are they structurally better built (i.e. do not rust)? Any specific parts which tend to go at this mileage on a 5-series (e.g. cooling system issues, fuel pump issue, electrical gremlins?)
- Vikas
Is a manual trans a requirement? If not, maybe have a look at the Lincoln LS cars(I think the V6's had a manual trans available?) , or maybe the LX Chryslers. I know the BMW guys will proclaim they have much better steering feel and handling but I think a regular 5 series isn't going to stun you with sharp handling, and the rare photos I see of a stock non-M BMW doing autocross, they have just about the same body roll as Corolla... Maybe a set of urethane bushings in the front suspension of an LX with a roll bar, will get you a much newer reliable better handling RWD car, I don't know, but it might be worth looking into.
Reading forums is easy research I find!
Unfortunately, _automatic_ is the requirement :-( Family will not let me buy any more manual vehicles unless it happens to be my own toy. The small engine 5 series BMW will meet my "BMW at non-BMW purchase and maintenance price" criterion; 540i does not 
I like the looks of Lincoln LS. For $5-10K is Lincoln LS a good bet?
I like the looks of Lincoln LS. For $5-10K is Lincoln LS a good bet?
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The small engine 5 series BMW will meet my "BMW at non-BMW purchase and maintenance price" criterion; 540i does not
Honestly, when looking at 12-year-old 5-series, there isn't much price difference between a 528i and a 540i. Maintenance on a 540i may be somewhat higher, but it's not a big difference either.
The small engine 5 series BMW will meet my "BMW at non-BMW purchase and maintenance price" criterion; 540i does not
Honestly, when looking at 12-year-old 5-series, there isn't much price difference between a 528i and a 540i. Maintenance on a 540i may be somewhat higher, but it's not a big difference either.
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The small engine 5 series BMW will meet my "BMW at non-BMW purchase and maintenance price" criterion; 540i does not
Honestly, when looking at 12-year-old 5-series, there isn't much price difference between a 528i and a 540i. Maintenance on a 540i may be somewhat higher, but it's not a big difference either.
This ^^^
It is the ///M cars and Z cars that are several notches higher in price.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The small engine 5 series BMW will meet my "BMW at non-BMW purchase and maintenance price" criterion; 540i does not
Honestly, when looking at 12-year-old 5-series, there isn't much price difference between a 528i and a 540i. Maintenance on a 540i may be somewhat higher, but it's not a big difference either.
This ^^^
It is the ///M cars and Z cars that are several notches higher in price.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I like the looks of Lincoln LS. For $5-10K is Lincoln LS a good bet?
Absolutely! Make sure you find a nice '03 or later, as that was the major update and power bump. If it's the V8, find out if the valve cover gasket update has been done. If it hasn't, budget $1,500 for the job from a dealer... maybe less from a little shop. It's a common issue allowing oil into the spark plug wells, killing the ignition coils. Once that's taken care of, it's generally a solid car.
I absolutely adore mine, and still love driving it after having owned it for 6 years now. Still quick, and quite nimble for a comfy sedan.
A friend of mine just dropped $15k on a nice 330ci (04, I think) and I don't find his car nearly as pleasurable to drive, and it actually feels claustrophobic to me. I know, a 3 series and LS/5 series is an apples to oranges comparison.
The V6 LS is a little lighter on it's feet, but that motor seems prone to more issues than the V8, imho. Also, the intake on that one has to be flopped over to change one bank of spark plugs. Oh, and the soundtrack SUCKS compared
to the V8.
Take your time shopping and you may be able to find a nice, 50-75k mile '03-'06 LS V8 around that $10k mark.
I like the looks of Lincoln LS. For $5-10K is Lincoln LS a good bet?
Absolutely! Make sure you find a nice '03 or later, as that was the major update and power bump. If it's the V8, find out if the valve cover gasket update has been done. If it hasn't, budget $1,500 for the job from a dealer... maybe less from a little shop. It's a common issue allowing oil into the spark plug wells, killing the ignition coils. Once that's taken care of, it's generally a solid car.
I absolutely adore mine, and still love driving it after having owned it for 6 years now. Still quick, and quite nimble for a comfy sedan.
A friend of mine just dropped $15k on a nice 330ci (04, I think) and I don't find his car nearly as pleasurable to drive, and it actually feels claustrophobic to me. I know, a 3 series and LS/5 series is an apples to oranges comparison.
The V6 LS is a little lighter on it's feet, but that motor seems prone to more issues than the V8, imho. Also, the intake on that one has to be flopped over to change one bank of spark plugs. Oh, and the soundtrack SUCKS compared
to the V8.
Take your time shopping and you may be able to find a nice, 50-75k mile '03-'06 LS V8 around that $10k mark.
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