Remember it's just recommended
Not required.
US vs Euro 0w20 for new Kia Carnival
- Thread starter Klutch9
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Kia does a fairly good job of speaking in circles in the manual so as to not commit to allowing different viscosity oils. In one sentence they say you may need a thicker oil based on temperature and then right after that they say but using an oil other than the one recommended could cause engine damage. To me, the allows Kia total a lot of leeway in deciding whether they are going to cover a warranty issue related to oil.
Where is this in the manual? We pick the vehicle up on Wednesday, and I’ll check the manual out then. I’ve been looking thru the digital one in the meantime.
Got to post 22 in this thread
It's right there......
The Carnival has the same page in it manual.
FWIW, I agree with you. IIRC, Kia has a 100k mile powertrain warranty. If they are willing to offer that length of warranty as a standard feature, that means they have data and high comfort that any good 0w20 meeting the spec in the manual will work just fine. Otherwise they are going to get a slew of warranty claims. And btw, we are not in the Middle East. ;-)
Other than that, if your local dealer is good/fair, I might keep it in the dealer service network to avoid any arguments in the event of a claim under the warranty. Yes, legally it is not required but if there is a question, a dealer serviced vehicle will not get questioned for coverage.
Good luck with the new van!
Does it? They have had A TON of warranty claims related to their engine designs over the past 10 years or so years. Where was the data that not only prevented these issues but fixed them in a timely manner once they were identified? They knew they had a problem and chose to still produce these engines as is for years and just absorb the cost lower down on the income statement.
There are a ton of reasons why certain decisions are made and what's best based on the data isn't always one of them. Marketing, meeting regulatory demands, and cost control seem to be just as important these days and it comes down to a cost-benefit analysis for almost every manufacturer. Don't give too much credit to the manufacturers in general and this is especially true for Kia/Hyundai.
The issues are very unlikely to be related to lubrication, because if they were, they would address it to avoid the warranty costs and customer satisfaction hit.
I am not sure what you do for a living, from your handle I am going to guess you are a dentist. For the first 5 years of my work I advised manufacturing clients, many in the automotive and aftermarket space (GM, Delphi, Penske, Denso, etc.). Warranty claims and failures are closely analyzed and if there are simple fixes, like a change in oil recommendation, that would address the claims and the underlying costs, those things are done almost immediately.
So it is not that I have some faith in manufacturers generally, but with that experience it bore out that any company will make the easy fix if that can eliminate the problem. I would bet you a steak dinner oil per se was not the issue on the Kia motors, rather a defect in manufacturing, design, or materials.
But this is the internet, so conspiracy theories are easier and more believable.
Finally, if our original poster has an issue, and he has serviced the van according to the manual, and done so at the dealer, there is zero chance of the repair being denied. So everything else is really just background noise, unless you or others here counseling departure from the recommendations, or doing more, are willing to take on the risk.
Have a good day.
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It was related to lubrication - - there was a TSB issued stating that for better protection to use a 5/0w-40 engine oil in many 2.0, 1.6t and 2.0t engines - - - -
I ran 5w/0w-20 in our 2010 v6 Santa Fe - - changed every 6 months mostly under 5k kms - - - At around 140k kms it had timing chain issues - - - -
Since then 5w-30 for me - - - Especially in hot high load driving.
The manual explicitly states that higher viscosity is required for better protection.
So no need to be scared about use a 5w30 - -
We all know the 0w-20 nonsense is for CAFE only and NOT for engine longevity.
Our carnival gets the oil to 220f easily with just me driving in moderate weather.
No way am I using a 20 with a fully loaded van, people and cargo, in the summer heat on a road trip - - no thanks.
CAFE can kiss my butt -
There is NO difference in MPG's that I have observed.
Just a smoother - quieter engine.
At the end of the day - - - if it is in print then you have a case to use a higher viscosity oil
Especially during break-in when the rings are not sealing great and you get more dilution thinning that already water thin 20 weight to something much lower.
The Carni is DI and Port injected.
You're missing my point and what you or I do for a living is immaterial to this discussion - I'm simply recounting history here and this requires no special insider knowledge. My point is simply that offering a 100K mile powertrain warranty doesn't mean a manufacturer is somehow more confident in their product than someone offering a 60k mile powertrain warranty - it's marketing. Hyundai/Kia is my example, they offer a 100k mile powertrain warranty and still chose to produce defective engines for YEARS.
Offering a 100k mile warranty is supposed to make consumers feel more confident about the product, and it would make sense that a company would really test and retest and be confident that warranty claims weren't going to be an issue, but the past decade of Hyundai/Kia shows this is not true. It shows there is no connection between the length of the warranty and the quality of the product. It shows that for some manufacturers, what they promise and what they sell are not the same, and consumers still need to beware manufacturer claims because sometimes they either don't know or don't act on what's best for consumers.
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Right, so when they discovered the issue is the recommended oil they changed the recommendation. That does not surprise me.
I share your skepticism of CAFE oils believe it or not but as consumers the service recommendations (requirements for many of the Euro cars) put us in a difficult situation. It is almost easier to own a car out of warranty, but I am still concerned, based on some personal experiences, about departing from service recommendations.
In any event, I think the van has the six cylinder engine which I believe has been around a while.
Friends a Kia 1.6 four turbo have had some issues.
Good luck to the original poster with the new van. It is fun to get a new car or truck and I would not want to ruin that experience.
But you are not departing from the manufacturer recommendations - - - there is a statement in the manual about increasing the viscosity during high heat usage. Goes so far as to say its even recommended.
This makes sense, even our water cooled - thermostat controlled engines, experience a rise in oil temperatures in hotter climates - usage - loads.
Higher heat = lower viscosity in any engine oil.
20 weights are fine for 100c or 220f usage - - - This 3.5 v6 - 12.3:1 compression engine gives off more heat with easy usage.
Our 2.0t in our Santa Fe will never go above 90c / 194f no matter how hard I push it - multiple WOT runs in the summer wont phase it.
The 3.5 not so much.
Same old tired 20 vs. 30.
Same old CAFE one listed recommended viscosity
Same old "Higher viscosity oil are required for satisfactory lubrication in hot weather" notation
I'm going back to the 16 vs. 20 threads for added excitement
Same old CAFE one listed recommended viscosity
Same old "Higher viscosity oil are required for satisfactory lubrication in hot weather" notation
I'm going back to the 16 vs. 20 threads for added excitement
I understand your point, and I don’t disagree. My only point originally, besides congratulating the owner on a new car, was that if your local dealer is decent, with a 100k mile warranty you can pretty much not worry about it if they service the vehicle with the oil Kia recommends - dealers cannot use what is not recommended.
My only point of departure with you is that quality 20 weight synthetics (not my first choice either) can handle higher than 220 without problems.
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0W-30
Don’t think I’ve seen a poorly formulated 0W-30 from anyone.
Euro or otherwise
Don’t think I’ve seen a poorly formulated 0W-30 from anyone.
Euro or otherwise
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Don’t buy into that warranty!! From a former Hyundai / Kia tech. So many variations and stipulations. Use 5w30 and change at 5,000 miles don’t go no more than that
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Don’t believe that. They use th cheapest bulk oil. We don’t use 0w20 in anything here in the south. VW, BMW, Nissan, Kia and Hyundai, Mazda we used 5w30 and 0w30 in the euro
Interesting. So you saw instances of cars that were regularly serviced at the dealer having coverage denied? That would be pretty scummy and would be a real knock on Kia. But very interesting.
I understand your point about bulk oil, it is not what I use but if a Kia dealer uses it, Kia cannot say the oil is inappropriate for warranty purposes. That would expose them to significant litigation risk.
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The cheap 20 weight dealer oil and fuel dilution+ too long OCI are big contributors to the already problematic engine issues.
0-5w30 is my kind of Kool aid. 5k max
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