Update & Diagnosis on Honda V6 Timing Belt Failure

[brages]

Originally Posted by CrackyWainwright

OK, here's what failed. It was essentially a parts failure rather than a technician error, although some may disagree. The pre-installed nut on the tension roller/pulley worked itself loose allowing the belt to flop off.

Thank you for posting the follow-up. There is always a lot to learn from things like this.

 

[Schmoe]

Good to know. My 17 Accord has the J35...when that time comes, I'll make dang sure everything is changed out. Lesson learned.

 

[Sayjac]

So as I read this, the new owner claims the tensioner bearing nut was not tightened to proper spec from the factory? "If" true and it was really an OEM part, inexcusable.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by Sayjac

So as I read this, the new owner claims the tensioner bearing nut was not tightened to proper spec from the factory? "If" true and it was really an OEM part, inexcusable.

Sort of hard to believe???

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted by Gebo

Originally Posted by Sayjac

So as I read this, the new owner claims the tensioner bearing nut was not tightened to proper spec from the factory? "If" true and it was really an OEM part, inexcusable.

Sort of hard to believe???

Let's put it this way, if everything I posted is true, it seems unlikely 'imo'. A 'one-off' type occurrence. I suppose if not an OEM part maybe more likely, but even then I'd think uncommon.

 

[PimTac]

I wonder if that part had been in someone else's hands before it got to the OP?

 

[KGMtech]

The mechanic was focused on salvaging his reputation, not so much concern for your welfare. It speaks volumes for your integrity that you have shared this knowledge with BITOG. I think the mechanic owes you some sort of refund on the original work for his stated assumption that proved so wrong.

 

[kschachn]

So is there a specific point (such as the #1 cylinder at TDC) where an interference engine will rotate without contacting the valves?

 

[benjayman227]

My gut feeling is "no", but you'd have to look at the specific engine design to be sure. Hitting that point (if it exists) would require a great deal of luck.

 

[Jimzz]

Where did they buy the kit from? If its been less than a year/12k most decent kit suppliers will stand behind it. Did you see the parts (before or after)? I have never had an issue with any Japanese made pulleys/AISIN kits. I also never check that nut, other than spinning the pulley in my hand, when I do Honda belts.

 

[CrackyWainwright]

Originally Posted by Sayjac

So as I read this, the new owner claims the tensioner bearing nut was not tightened to proper spec from the factory? "If" true and it was really an OEM part, inexcusable.

Correct. That's exactly what the man who bought the car and who is also a mechanic reported to me. There are two mechanics in this story, and that's confusing some readers. There is the mechanic who did the t-belt job with parts I supplied for him about four months ago, and there's a mechanic who bought the non-running car from me with the plan to drop another engine into it if needed. The buyer (and second mechanic) had no reputation to salvage or defend in this story; he's just a self-taught guy with access to good tools and an innate talent for mechanics. I don't think he was even trying to pour salt into my wounds but rather just letting me know for the record what he found. To JIMZZ and others who asked: The parts were sold to me as OEM from an eBay seller with good feedback rating. Make of that what you will. I now realize the risk even if the packaging looks OEM legit.

 

[zeke1958]

I was going to buy one of the Ebay timing belt kits for my Lexus ES. After reading about this disaster I bought all same parts from Toyota/Lexus dealer for 142.00 more.Worth it for peace of mind to me.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by zeke1958

I was going to buy one of the Ebay timing belt kits for my Lexus ES. After reading about this disaster I bought all same parts from Toyota/Lexus dealer for 142.00 more.Worth it for peace of mind to me.

I'm with you. Too many copy cats that look like the real thing.

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted by CrackyWainwright

Originally Posted by Sayjac

So as I read this, the new owner claims the tensioner bearing nut was not tightened to proper spec from the factory? "If" true and it was really an OEM part, inexcusable.

Correct. That's exactly what the man who bought the car and who is also a mechanic reported to me. There are two mechanics in this story, and that's confusing some readers. There is the mechanic who did the t-belt job with parts I supplied for him about four months ago, and there's a mechanic who bought the non-running car from me with the plan to drop another engine into it if needed. The buyer (and second mechanic) had no reputation to salvage or defend in this story; he's just a self-taught guy with access to good tools and an innate talent for mechanics. I don't think he was even trying to pour salt into my wounds but rather just letting me know for the record what he found. To JIMZZ and others who asked: The parts were sold to me as OEM from an eBay seller with good feedback rating. Make of that what you will. I now realize the risk even if the packaging looks OEM legit.

Can you link to the eBay posting? But yea you most likely got a fake or a "OE like" kit. For those Honda V6 motors aisin kits with water pump or a gates kit without water pump (gates water pumps suck) is what I use. Both come with the same japanese pulleys. I've had customers bring me cheap and/or no name kits before. I always warn them and tell them, I will not warrant it since its their parts I don't trust/know. I tell them the good kits I will stand behind and thats all.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by Jimzz

gates kit without water pump (gates water pumps suck) is what I use. Both come with the same japanese pulleys.

caveat emptor, Gates is also selling versions with all Chinese idler/tensioner pulleys for some applications. The Subaru guys swore by Gates kits sans WP until the running change happened. If there's an N in the part number of the TCK kit, you have OES bearings.

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted by nthach

Originally Posted by Jimzz

gates kit without water pump (gates water pumps suck) is what I use. Both come with the same japanese pulleys.

caveat emptor, Gates is also selling versions with all Chinese idler/tensioner pulleys for some applications. The Subaru guys swore by Gates kits sans WP until the running change happened. If there's an N in the part number of the TCK kit, you have OES bearings.

Yea I was ONLY talking the Honda kit. Sorry if that was not 100% clear. Other gates kits I am skeptical on unless I can see what parts they use. If in doubt use a aisin kit.

 

[MrMoody]

Originally Posted by CrackyWainwright

The parts were sold to me as OEM from an eBay seller with good feedback rating.

And now we know the rest of the story. There is a lot of fake garbage on eBay (and Amazon 3rd party). I've been ripped off, too, but never lost a car to a crap part. The lesson I learned is to CAREFULLY inspect anything I buy off eBay immediately on receipt.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Gebo

Originally Posted by zeke1958

I was going to buy one of the Ebay timing belt kits for my Lexus ES. After reading about this disaster I bought all same parts from Toyota/Lexus dealer for 142.00 more.Worth it for peace of mind to me.

I'm with you. Too many copy cats that look like the real thing.

You both are right in my opinion...

 

[CrackyWainwright]

The main problem here (besides the fact that I may have gotten Chinese-made parts packaged to look just like Honda OEM parts) is that I don't have the mechanical knowledge or the tools to follow all the suggestions for fixing or testing my dead Accord in the days after the belt broke: "slap a timing belt on it and see if it will crank," "do a leak down test," "inspect the valves." I'm very good at basic maintenance, but I'm no where near doing any serious mechanical work on an Accord V6. I'm an English professor for crying out loud, so I have no real-world skills such as plumbing or auto mechanics or roofing. I can teach your college-age kids grammar, literature, and linguistics (and I can run a chainsaw and skin a deer). I have to hire all serious mechanical work done by others, so that REALLY handicapped me with this Accord situation.

 

[clinebarger]

The mechanic that did the job should have offered to at least try putting a belt on it......And, I always add a dab of loctite to the tensioner idler nut & re torque it. 18 ft lbs for 8mm nuts & 32 ft lbs for 10mm nuts are good universal torque values. I realize you're not upset with the mechanic.....But this is the kind of crap that gives mechanics a bad reputation, < 2 minutes of time could have avoided this whole thing.