UOA: 2011 Mazda2 OEM filter vs K&N SRI

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So in conclusion to this thread I'll say if you want absolute best filtration absolutely I'd stick with an OEM Mazda filter. Properly installed the DDMWorks intake with K&N filter is perfectly adequate.


Sums things up pretty well in experience too.
 
I like this thread, thanks for sharing. I also think that this is a good example of the application dependent nature of the benefits or lack thereof, in a modified air cleaner setup.

Always amused by the knee jerk hand wringing that comes about whenever K&N or similar comes up in discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: WANG
I like this thread, thanks for sharing. I also think that this is a good example of the application dependent nature of the benefits or lack thereof, in a modified air cleaner setup.

Always amused by the knee jerk hand wringing that comes about whenever K&N or similar comes up in discussion.


Yes, excellent thread.
 
I'd rather NOT find out the hard way that K&N does not have adequate efficiency in my application and driving conditions.
With the stock configuration I know FOR SURE it's filtering the dirt to a very low level.
I DON'T CARE if I'm losing a couple HP at WOT.
 
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Originally Posted By: circuitsmith
I'd rather NOT find out the hard way that K&N does not have adequate efficiency in my application and driving conditions.
With the stock configuration I know FOR SURE it's filtering the dirt to a very low level.
I DON'T CARE if I'm losing a couple HP at WOT.


Ok, then don't use it. Simple. But others on here have and will continue doing so. His Silicon numbers are well within reason...


http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/958/wear-limits-trends

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/articles_200611_LimitsVsTrends---Table1.jpg
 
Just a small update... since the HOT heat of summer has set in... intake temperature heat soak HAS proven to be something worth getting under control again. Been seeing IATs get up to 30-35 over ambient, then linger 15-20 degrees over ambient even 3/4 of the way through an autocross run only getting close to ambient at the very end.

We had our club's annual dyno day this weekend, so I threw my car on there for grins...




The dyno plot:




Disappointing but not really unexpected. The heatsoak problem was setting in by run #3... IATs were still 15 deg over ambient. With the hood open.


Not really 100% sure what I'll be doing at this point... I am leaning towards either A) using another OEM air box and making my own tubing to adapt it and draw cold air from below the car... also I've read up more on the previously recommended Donaldson Power Core line of filters...

I think the way to go will be to add an intake bellmouth such as this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-10951/overview/

With a Donaldson filter such as this:
http://www.volant.com/edetail.asp?ID=85&ptype=f

And extend a 6in duct downwards into cooler air, the diameter would make it easy to flatten to stay up and out of the way as well.

Alternatively just run tubing into the fenderwell and locate the filter and all down there.


Just posting an update as I AM looking to make it faster, and any iteration that *I* fabricate will be done right.
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Just keeping this thread going as I'll keep it updated with whatever I end up doing. May well be next winter time but it'll get done.
 
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Originally Posted By: slybunda
Does it not overheat when autocrossing?



The car's cooling system? No.


The air intake sucks in hot air from the engine bay waiting to go, IATs climb up giving noticeable power loss for a good 25+ sec of the run. They drop once I start moving, but they climb up far enough and don't drop fast enough to satisfy me for now.

I usually leave the car running, hood up, and A/C running(to keep cooling fans running) between runs. After 1-2 runs closing the hod to go out for the next is when the temps climb.

An event is coming up on the 21st, so I may try to actively collect data then. Strapping down a heavy old laptop is a bit of a pain and safety issue though.
 
Will do!

Baseline testing intake temps on my way home from work 3 days this week. This I with DDMWorks filter, and Corksport air duct.

All done over 15-20min, all stop and go traffic going down Jefferson Avenue in Newport News.

Car sitting 9+hrs, start up, and go/start logging within 2-3min.


This one from Wednesday:




Thursday(bit heavier traffic). I also made the graph larger for more resolution.





Will graph one more time today when I leave.


Also picked this up, will use to see if the stock filter setup is restrictive or not.



If either/both intakes don't even budge the filter minder, I'll buy the K&N version that reads 0-10in-H2O... I got this one for $15 through work, as opposed to the K&N that is $30+ everywhere I've looked.

When I take the DDMWorks intake off, I'll add a test port to it as well for future testing.


Basically if the stock setup is truly not restrictive, I'll cover the air box in heat rejecting insulation and retune it.

If it proves to be restricted in stock form, depending on how bad it is, I'll build my own setup to suck air from a fender well through a Donaldson filter, or build a box around an AEM dryflow, learn to fiberglass or plastic weld, utilizing the CS air duct as a basis, but seal it off.

Ducting from below I've thought about, as well as adding fog light bezels and taking air from one, but that's a bit of a very area with the SCCA ST* rules, so we'll see what happens.
 
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And today(Friday) - traffic was a good bit lighter today which was nice. Temps weren't terrible, but still room for improvement.





Hopefully I get a chance to make some headway on my project this weekend.
 
Donaldson Powercore filters are available as a double flange design, which makes ducting a breeze, since you need only attach piping to both sides.


Don't take your air from down low. Your intake will absorb an exaggerated amount of dirt, just making your filter cleaning intervals frequent.
 
On most modern cars the ECU needs to be remapped to take advantage of reduced intake restrictions. If you do that most insurance companies regards it as an engine power mod, so check the terms of the insurance policy to see if the mod needs to be declared.

You can avoid spending money on a new air filter installation by just removing the OEM filter element and replacing it with an old pair of socks when racing. That will probably give you similar UOA results to a K&N for Silicon.

If you do fit a wash and oil air filter, make sure to carry a can of MAF sensor spray, as excess oil can easily contaminate the sensor elements resulting in limp home mode.
 
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Donaldson Powercore filters are available as a double flange design, which makes ducting a breeze, since you need only attach piping to both sides.


Don't take your air from down low. Your intake will absorb an exaggerated amount of dirt, just making your filter cleaning intervals frequent.



I'm not terribly concerned with intervals if I utilize a Donaldson filter... I am heavily leaning toward the dual 3.5in flanged version because of ease of fabrication.

Most likely I'll try to make a lower duct removable for daily use as the car is pretty low to the ground.


Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
On most modern cars the ECU needs to be remapped to take advantage of reduced intake restrictions. If you do that most insurance companies regards it as an engine power mod, so check the terms of the insurance policy to see if the mod needs to be declared.

You can avoid spending money on a new air filter installation by just removing the OEM filter element and replacing it with an old pair of socks when racing. That will probably give you similar UOA results to a K&N for Silicon.

If you do fit a wash and oil air filter, make sure to carry a can of MAF sensor spray, as excess oil can easily contaminate the sensor elements resulting in limp home mode.



Mine is tuned via laptop so that's not a factor. And I'm in America so we don't have to ask permission to modify our cars
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a tune on a 100hp car is hardly something to worry about for insurance. I'd be more concerned of issues with my fabricated suspension(which now has over 30k miles on it).

I'm also a technician - pretty aware of MAF oiling issues. It's not a problem if oiled correctly... But you missed the whole point of the last several posts that I'm now testing to redesign everything to get away from the K&N filter as it's not ideal and oiling "correctly" seems to be a problem in itself I'd rather not screw up.

It's down to either a Donaldson filter or an AEM dryflow.



Anyway for data purposes: restriction of stock OEM intake with a 25k mile used Mazda/Denso filter is about 8in-H2O.





I was off work today so no temp logging... But I have been observing it driving around. The intake will run about 10F over ambient after driving around for 15min , sooner if you come to a stop. It doesn't seem to heat soak to as high total temps over ambient, unless you turn the car off, but any heat it does get(20F over is about right at a stop light) it takes a good while to lower back down, and even then it rarely gets closer than 10F above ambient. It dips a bit lower if you go WOT for long periods of time at higher RPMs, but heat soaks again quickly. I think its just a matter of not a ton of air rushing through the inside to keep temps low. I'll reserve judgment until I take it on the same route as the DDMWorks intake.


Also, even tuned for it, there's a noticeable lag throttling away from a stop. May have to do with the MAF sensor being RIGHT before a tight-ish 90 degree bend into the throttle body? Might be able to be sorted out with some more logging and changes
 
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Well testing hasn't gone completely as planned... I drove an hour to work on Monday... only to find out that I had the day off(requested it off a LONG time ago because a 2 day event was planned, but ended up not being able to make it for other reasons, and forgot I had it off... ha). So that was one day lost for testing.


Both Tuesday and today(Wednesday) have been very light traffic... so these are probably most comparable to the last histogram I had posted.





This is from today, NOTE that for whatever reason my phone running Torque decided to shut itself off after the first 2-3 min of driving... so it's missing a few minutes of data early on - it would normally be contributing to the first two bars on the left.





Under these conditions(driving off after starting), it appears the stock intake is better as far as temps go. It doesn't heat soak as quickly, however it also doesn't dissipate heat near as quickly and hangs around 5-10 deg higher than ambient usually. This is noticeable as getting on the highway, it'll take a good 2-3 miles before it gets within 2-3 deg of ambient. Makes sense as the air box is mounted directly to the aluminum valve cover.

I am car pooling tomorrow so won't have data again tomorrow. May or may not bother on Friday... we'll see.




I've also been recording the overall trip(1hr+ driving)... which may also be worth looking at so I'll share those here as well...


This is test #1 with the DDMWorks intake:



#2:



and #3:





And here is the stock intake... definitely not as bad about total heat soaking... it takes much longer sitting in traffic to reach 30+ over ambient... this one from yesterday:





And this one from today:




Important thing to note on the last graph... the temperature dropped severely when I got about 10 min from home... it was previously 100-102F up until then... it started raining suddenly which is what dropped the temp. So the two bars at the far left can basically be ignored, technically should be added to the third bar.


Basic shape of the stock intake vs the DDMWorks intakes... the DDMWorks intake gives better temps at highway speeds(this sort of surprised me). It drops temps MUCH faster if they get elevated. On the flip side of that, they elevate faster when sitting still. The stock intake takes a bit longer to heat soak to say 20F over ambient... but once it gets there it hangs around at 10+ over ambient unless you get to like 45+ mph. Lower city speeds are not enough air movement I'm guessing to flow around the engine compartment and aid in cooling off the plastic housing. The car has such a small engine, the air going THROUGH the housing doesn't move all that quickly so it stays stagnant and warmer by 5-10 deg under most conditions.



I really wish the scatter plot graphing function of Torque worked... it would be useful to plot intake temps vs vehicle speed. :-/



I suspect with the DDMWorks intake I may benefit from just wrapping the metal tube that houses the MAF sensor... I really think a lot of the "hot air" is actually from the tube acting like a heat sink, not just heating up the air inside it, but the sensor itself. Apparently this is an issue in Mustang applications as well. I'll be experimenting with this next week I believe, once I mod the housing to put the filter minder in place.


Probably in September-October I'll be making moves to improve on the filter setup once I get some clarification on the legality of ducting it from a fog light opening... which would be minimal fab work and a pretty reasonable placement rather than sucking it off the ground like a vacuum. I'd really like to utilize a Donaldson/Volant filter, which is basically impossible to reuse/modify/box in the Corksport duct. An AEM dry-flow would be more conductive to that, but that'll also make working around it a bit of a chore... plus there's such short span from duct area to throttle body, and with engine movement something in there has to give... and with a fully boxed filter that'll be tough to do.

The goal is cold air once moving relatively quickly... minimal heat soak when sitting still... and filtration comparable to stock.
Will keep you guys posted on what happens.
 
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