unintended consequences of school bond vote

[IndyIan]

I think many of the schooling problems could be solved with school board amalgamation. In southern ontario there are only 23 english boards, for 11 million people. It evens out funding putting kids on a similar playing field and poorly educated kids can become expensive liabilities as the grow older, so its better to invest in them when they are young.
Someone at the state level has to say how much amalgamation will save, and then do it, whining rich parents be [censored].

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: opus1
Originally Posted By: SevenBizzos
I remember our local district had an increase of 2.75% of their levy in 2011 and again in 2012, but wanted to make sure everyone knew that they "didn't raise taxes". Creative.

My taxes will be more than my mortgage soon.


I passed that point a long time ago; 15% of my mortgage payment goes to P&I, the other 85% go to taxes and insurance. On the tax bill, 2/3 of my payment goes to support a school district that had not one, but 2 schools sitting empty for almost 5 years because they had bond money to build, but not to staff.

I stopped voting for increased taxes for schools after 2 years in a row of "if you give us this increase, we promise we won't come back to ask for more for at least 5 years..." promises. Doesn't seem to make a difference though.


Where my parents live, the school district actually lowered their taxes ... coincidental, it was the same year that the village tripled everyone's assessment.

 

[SteveSRT8]

We have extensive real world experience in the Fl school system over the past 3 decades. We have a 34 year retired superintendent, an equally experienced principal, and a therapist who worked in the system for 16 years in our immediate family, as well as a teacher at a local vo-tech county operated school.

Teachers here simply CANNOT be fired. They get re-assigned, moved, transferred, but they always have a job. As long as they didn't stab a kid or something they have no accountability. A principal we know had to hire an extra teacher to teach a class where the original teacher was literally sleeping at her desk all day! My wife has had therapists not even show for work for a month and nothing happened! Another therapist has no notes for a full calendar year, never fired!

And note you pay union dues whether or not you like it. It is simply NOT voluntary. Then those dollars go to support the status quo and the fight to prevent changes that could benefit the children!

The point is that the teachers and other workers do indeed share some of the blame and are far from perfect. Many consider their 'system' to be in decline and are riding it out looking for a big retirement.

That said, it is amazing what the parents can do if they form a cooperative effort within their children's school. The last elementary school my wife worked in has a very involved local parent's group that has really made a difference. This also invigorates the burnt out teachers and gets them involved again.

I firmly believe we waste billions every year in Fl alone on bad teachers and other personnel because the union has so many rules in place to protect their folks. We need accountability and a method for grading performance.

Watch how the unions fight viciously when anyone mentions accountability...

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
We need accountability and a method for grading performance.

Best way is to give parents the ability to fire their kid's teacher and school by allowing them school choice. Without this, there is no reason for teachers or schools to improve.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Without this, there is no reason for teachers or schools to improve.


... Other than caring about the quality of their work and the welfare of the children in their care; which matters to some educators more than fear and money.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
People do for jobs all the time.

I don't have to move to change jobs. I do in order to change my son's school. In fact, I have. It's ridiculous to have to uproot a family, including all of the relations and friends made, just to be able move to a different school.

And not everyone can afford to move to a different area, especially if costs are higher. Isn't the idea behind government schools that they are supposed to be "free" so kids won't be a burden in the future? If people have to spend money to move and pay higher living costs, that education is far from free or equal.

Quote:
and the parents are too stupid to take matters into their own hands and have any active role

What "active role" would you like them to take? They can't change their teacher and they can't change their school without completely uprooting their family. Why should a family's address revolve around what school their kid(s) are going to?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Without this, there is no reason for teachers or schools to improve.


... Other than caring about the quality of their work and the welfare of the children in their care; which matters to some educators more than fear and money.


Without a doubt. I believe that the vast majority of teachers actually in the class rooms want kids to do well and are motivated to make that happen. However, most teachers have very little control over what the curriculum is and the speed at which it is taught.

I know for a fact that the public school my son is in now (one of the best in the state) is at least two full years behind the private school I had him in. The last year and a half of public school has been little more than review of the stuff he learned before.

And that "evil for profit" private school is actually slightly cheaper per year per student than the amount of money per student the local district expends, with no legacy retirement costs to the taxpayer . It's infuriating. If the money would follow the student, guess where parents that do care about their kid's education would go?

But the union will have none of it.

 

[KenO]

Money has not, nor will ever, fix our education problems. I would ALWAYS vote no on these, unless they can show their fiscal responsibility and actual care for the students. Sadly, most districts can't or won't.

 

[hattaresguy]

Our local board of ed tries this nonsense every year.

In our city its administrative costs down city hall that are the killer. They always seem to need another "administrator" of some type who makes $125k a year of course. They also like spending money on lavish city vehicles to cart themselves around in, and catered breakfast at city hall on some Fridays. As a tax payer I'm tempted to crash it and start eating as well, cause its my tax dollars paying for it all.

The teachers get the short end of the stick.

Oh and if someone tries to mess with their budget they scream about laying off teachers not the "administrators" or big SUV's they drive around in. Than you get the moronic parents in who don't know they are getting used to scream, "Oh won't someone please think of the children."

 

[javacontour]

Except the private school is not required to take everyone. So it's hard to say they can educate for less.

Make them take every student with an IEP and every "troubled" student and you will see the costs rise.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for private schools. But I am under no illusions that it's an apples to apples comparison.

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Without this, there is no reason for teachers or schools to improve.


... Other than caring about the quality of their work and the welfare of the children in their care; which matters to some educators more than fear and money.


Without a doubt. I believe that the vast majority of teachers actually in the class rooms want kids to do well and are motivated to make that happen. However, most teachers have very little control over what the curriculum is and the speed at which it is taught.

I know for a fact that the public school my son is in now (one of the best in the state) is at least two full years behind the private school I had him in. The last year and a half of public school has been little more than review of the stuff he learned before.

And that "evil for profit" private school is actually slightly cheaper per year per student than the amount of money per student the local district expends, with no legacy retirement costs to the taxpayer . It's infuriating. If the money would follow the student, guess where parents that do care about their kid's education would go?

But the union will have none of it.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

And note you pay union dues whether or not you like it. It is simply NOT voluntary. Then those dollars go to support the status quo and the fight to prevent changes that could benefit the children!


Watch how the unions fight viciously when anyone mentions accountability...


Not anymore in Wisconsin. We implemented union reforms in 2011 that, among other things, prohibited compulsory union dues from being withheld automatically for certain public employee union members, including teachers. Net result, once these union members were free to make a personal decision whether to belong to a union or not, over half and up to 2/3 of members of some unions quit. The reforms also require mandatory annual re-certification of the unions by their members, and many of the locals simply were not re-certified when the membership voted them out.

If you want to see how they "fought viciously" over these reforms, Google "2011 Wisconsin union protest".

Even so, two years down the road, public employees are free to make their own decisions about union membership, and the reforms are working. It is possible.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

With all the angst about school taxes and the quality of education, I don't see a single person here standing up and running for a position on their local board-the place where they could actually make a difference. At the very least, I haven't seen a single person discuss going to a school board meeting and voicing their opinion.

If there's a problem and you're not an active part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Sitting around a computer screen whining about it does nothing.

It's the very reason that I ran for elected office-to help keep taxes low, and maintain/improve fiduciary responsibility at a local level. I could have sat around and complained, but instead I chose to dedicate time to changing things that I thought were wrong. There's no reason why each of you who are crying and moaning can't do exactly the same.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Sitting around a computer screen whining about it does nothing.

Discussing topics and their consequences is an integral part of a free populace. It's nice that (apparently) you have the time and resources to run for office, however most of us don't. We do however, have the time to vote, and walking into that voting booth with knowledge is one of the most important functions of our society.

Strong discourse is one of the best ways to ensure that happens.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: opus1
Originally Posted By: SevenBizzos
I remember our local district had an increase of 2.75% of their levy in 2011 and again in 2012, but wanted to make sure everyone knew that they "didn't raise taxes". Creative.

My taxes will be more than my mortgage soon.


I passed that point a long time ago; 15% of my mortgage payment goes to P&I, the other 85% go to taxes and insurance. On the tax bill, 2/3 of my payment goes to support a school district that had not one, but 2 schools sitting empty for almost 5 years because they had bond money to build, but not to staff.

I stopped voting for increased taxes for schools after 2 years in a row of "if you give us this increase, we promise we won't come back to ask for more for at least 5 years..." promises. Doesn't seem to make a difference though.


I have been voting "no" across the board on ALL bond issues as long as I can remember...but it's pretty much hopeless. The voters here really ARE that stupid.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
With all the angst about school taxes and the quality of education, I don't see a single person here standing up and running for a position on their local board-the place where they could actually make a difference. At the very least, I haven't seen a single person discuss going to a school board meeting and voicing their opinion.

If there's a problem and you're not an active part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Sitting around a computer screen whining about it does nothing.

It's the very reason that I ran for elected office-to help keep taxes low, and maintain/improve fiduciary responsibility at a local level. I could have sat around and complained, but instead I chose to dedicate time to changing things that I thought were wrong. There's no reason why each of you who are crying and moaning can't do exactly the same.


Devoting the time to run (let alone serve) would probably end with me being unemployed, and I might be the single least-electable person in the state. Also, there's the simple fact that this has been a one-party town in a one-party state for most of sixty years. Anyone with the temerity to oppose the royalty will be PUNISHED! (Minimum, expect property taxes to be "reassessed".)

 

[KenO]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
With all the angst about school taxes and the quality of education, I don't see a single person here standing up and running for a position on their local board-the place where they could actually make a difference. At the very least, I haven't seen a single person discuss going to a school board meeting and voicing their opinion.

If there's a problem and you're not an active part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Sitting around a computer screen whining about it does nothing.

It's the very reason that I ran for elected office-to help keep taxes low, and maintain/improve fiduciary responsibility at a local level. I could have sat around and complained, but instead I chose to dedicate time to changing things that I thought were wrong. There's no reason why each of you who are crying and moaning can't do exactly the same.


Devoting the time to run (let alone serve) would probably end with me being unemployed, and I might be the single least-electable person in the state. Also, there's the simple fact that this has been a one-party town in a one-party state for most of sixty years. Anyone with the temerity to oppose the royalty will be PUNISHED! (Minimum, expect property taxes to be "reassessed".)



Ya, you do have to be careful about this kind of thing in small, rural areas. You can't go at something like that, looking to make big changes and upset the establishment, with no friends. You're asking for BIG trouble, from the corrupt mayor, the corrupt tax assessors office, the corrupt sherrif.....

 

[JHZR2]

When Pop disappears, we will know why

 

[javacontour]

Actually better than that. I work out at the gym with two school board reps, an alderman, the treasurer and the mayor from time to time.

I don't need to run for office with so many leaders seen several times each week.

Anything I need to say, I bring up over a cup of coffee with the local leadership.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
With all the angst about school taxes and the quality of education, I don't see a single person here standing up and running for a position on their local board-the place where they could actually make a difference. At the very least, I haven't seen a single person discuss going to a school board meeting and voicing their opinion.

If there's a problem and you're not an active part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Sitting around a computer screen whining about it does nothing.

It's the very reason that I ran for elected office-to help keep taxes low, and maintain/improve fiduciary responsibility at a local level. I could have sat around and complained, but instead I chose to dedicate time to changing things that I thought were wrong. There's no reason why each of you who are crying and moaning can't do exactly the same.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Actually better than that. I work out at the gym with two school board reps, an alderman, the treasurer and the mayor from time to time.

I don't need to run for office with so many leaders seen several times each week.

Anything I need to say, I bring up over a cup of coffee with the local leadership.



That's how it is in our town as well. They are always available.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

Devoting the time to run (let alone serve) would probably end with me being unemployed, and I might be the single least-electable person in the state. Also, there's the simple fact that this has been a one-party town in a one-party state for most of sixty years. Anyone with the temerity to oppose the royalty will be PUNISHED! (Minimum, expect property taxes to be "reassessed".)


No man is an island.