unintended consequences of school bond vote

[pb]

there are some smart people on here, so i hope you can help educate me. i am upset to find comparing my real estate tax bill for this year, the itemization of tax from the school increased 17%. a call to the collector's office reminded me of the passing of the school bond vote earlier this year. i found the ballet text:

Shall the Board of Education of the Montgomery County R-II School District, Missouri, borrow money in the amount of Fourteen Million Five Hundred Thousand Dollars ($14,500,000) for the purpose of providing funds for the site development, construction, equipping and furnishing of (1) additional classrooms at the High School, Middle School, Montgomery City Elementary and Jonesburg Elementary in order to eliminate the use of temporary trailers, (2) new vocational-agricultural facility at the High School, (3) a new gymnasium and kitchen/cafeteria at the Middle School, (4) additional library spaces; to the extent funds are available, to complete other remodeling and repair improvements to the existing facilities of the District; and issue bonds for the payment thereof resulting in an estimated increase to the debt service property tax levy of $0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation? If this proposition is approved, the adjusted debt service levy of the School District is estimated to increase from $0.00 to $0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation of real and personal property.

now from that, should i have known (or perhaps the better question is what would have prepared me) a increase of 17% was forthcoming?

tia,
parker

 

[azjake]

The text says there will be an estimated increase of $.0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation. If you pulled out last year's tax bill looked at what the assessed value of your home was and did the math it would have given you a good idea of what the increase from the bond issue would be.

For example if your home was assessed at $50,000 last year that would be 65 cents X 500, which equals $325 dollars, and that's assuming the assessed value of your home didn't increase from last year.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: azjake
The text says there will be an estimated increase of $.0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation. If you pulled out last year's tax bill looked at what the assessed value of your home was and did the math it would have given you a good idea of what the increase from the bond issue would be.

For example if your home was assessed at $50,000 last year that would be 65 cents X 500, which equals $325 dollars, and that's assuming the assessed value of your home didn't increase from last year.


Exactly, but I did a quick search, found this, and it says taxes in that district would only go up by $123/year.

http://votersguide.stltoday.com/race-detail.do?id=11615079

 

[chubbs1]

Wow, we had a lot of "ballot initiatives" a couple of years ago and the way they are worded can really confuse you or in the case of your situation they are for a good cause so people vote "yes" not realizing how much it will affect them financially. I was actually going to vote yes on a couple of initiatives that, upon further research, were not as rosy as they sounded. The key is research and unfortunately not enough people do it and is too late now. Sorry about your situation.

 

[zzyzzx]

If you voted for this, then it's case of made bed, lie.

I always vote against everything like this.

 

[R80RS]

The operative line that answers your question is "the adjusted debt service levy of the School District is estimated to increase from $0.00 to $0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation of real and personal property". That means you pay $0.65 per each $100 of assessed value (not appraised value) of your real and personal property. So that's an additional $650 per year per $100,000 of assessed value. In addition to your real property (house, land) this will extend to your personal property. IIRC, Missouri includes the assessed value of titled vehicles in the personal property tax, so you may see a bump from this when you renew your car's license plates as well.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
If you voted for this, then it's case of made bed, lie.

I always vote against everything like this.


Well, you know how to write because someone at some point voted yes.

To the OP, I feel your pain because that is such a huge increase. I'm really surprised that passed, to be honest, if you have a nice home that could be a 4 digit property tax increase.... wow. Around here anything 1/4 that size is pretty much doomed.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Schools are just out of control. Seriously.

 

[Drew99GT]

It says the estimated increase is 65 cents, but it will be between 0 to 65 cents. That is hideously worded. Why not just give the actual rate? It makes it sound like the mill levy has progressive rates for this bond issue; I've never heard of that.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx


I always vote against everything like this.


Well, you know how to write because someone at some point voted yes.



We know how to write because someone taught us, not because of a bond issue. It's not axiomatic that education requires a non-stop spiral of tax increases. That is self evident because people learned how to read and write quite well in years past, before the constant imposition of such burdensome taxes.

 

[SrDriver]

That is one of the reasons we retired in Southeast Alabama. Our house is valued @ $160,000.00 and our total property taxes for the year this year is just over Four Hundred Dollars.

Same house and lot up in Wisconsin in the small town where I am from would be in the neighborhood of $6,000.00 a year on this house and lot.

We lived in Florida too and their taxes have seen a jump. Then too there is the hurricane insurance that one must contend with which is very expensive.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx


I always vote against everything like this.


Well, you know how to write because someone at some point voted yes.



We know how to write because someone taught us, not because of a bond issue. It's not axiomatic that education requires a non-stop spiral of tax increases. That is self evident because people learned how to read and write quite well in years past, before the constant imposition of such burdensome taxes.


So it would seem you are pro education, just against the increased costs? I'm with you 100% on that. The problem I have is people who vote against "everything" as if defunding public education is a good choice. For me this would be 2 grand increase in my property taxes, I'm not sure I would vote yes either. On the other hand our school district has some classroom trailers which is a lower standard than what I grew up with.... me meaning it doesn't seem fair for me to accept a good public education and then conveniently forget that while the next generation gets a substandard one. Certainly every kid doesn't need an ipad and a lane at an indoor track.

 

[R80RS]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
It says the estimated increase is 65 cents, but it will be between 0 to 65 cents. That is hideously worded. Why not just give the actual rate? It makes it sound like the mill levy has progressive rates for this bond issue; I've never heard of that.


It says the rate is $0.65 per $100 of assessed value. Then it states that this constitutes an increase from $0.00 to $0.65, meaning that this is an entirely new tax. It does not imply that the rate for this bond issue may fall between $0.00 and $0.65 but rather that the present rate is $0.00 and when approved the rate is $0.65. Wording like this may be required for referendums under law because many bond issues are for the purpose of refinancing or retiring existing bond issues, in which case it would state the the cost of the current levy and the cost if the proposed refinance bond is approved.

 

[Eddie]

We killed ourselves in Florida by voting to reduce school class size from 25 to 15 students. That basically required more teachers, more class rooms i.e. buildings etc. People just don't think these things through and of course the school lobby pushes it in most cases so the taxpayer never hears the opposing discussion.

 

[kmcavin]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: azjake
The text says there will be an estimated increase of $.0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation. If you pulled out last year's tax bill looked at what the assessed value of your home was and did the math it would have given you a good idea of what the increase from the bond issue would be.

For example if your home was assessed at $50,000 last year that would be 65 cents X 500, which equals $325 dollars, and that's assuming the assessed value of your home didn't increase from last year.


Exactly, but I did a quick search, found this, and it says taxes in that district would only go up by $123/year.

http://votersguide.stltoday.com/race-detail.do?id=11615079


I think the voters' guide messed up. It mentions a $100,000 market value, not assessed value. I'm not sure what percentage of the market value the taxes are assessed, so it's difficult to know. Also, from the actual ballot, "an estimated increase to the debt service property tax levy of 65 cents per $100 assessed valuation. Hmm, I wonder how close they actually are to the 'estimate". I'd be leery of any ballot item that used an estimate rather than a concrete amount.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
It says the estimated increase is 65 cents, but it will be between 0 to 65 cents. That is hideously worded. Why not just give the actual rate? It makes it sound like the mill levy has progressive rates for this bond issue; I've never heard of that.


It says the rate is $0.65 per $100 of assessed value. Then it states that this constitutes an increase from $0.00 to $0.65, meaning that this is an entirely new tax. It does not imply that the rate for this bond issue may fall between $0.00 and $0.65 but rather that the present rate is $0.00 and when approved the rate is $0.65. Wording like this may be required for referendums under law because many bond issues are for the purpose of refinancing or retiring existing bond issues, in which case it would state the the cost of the current levy and the cost if the proposed refinance bond is approved.


No it doesn't.

"estimated increase to the debt service property tax levy of $0.65 per one hundred dollars of assessed valuation? If this proposition is approved, the adjusted debt service levy of the School District is estimated to increase from $0.00 to $0.65 per one hundred dollars"

It does not in any way give the actual rate.

 

[pbm]

Despite all the big tax increases our 'students' seem to become dumber.....could it be the students themselves maybe?

 

[FutureDoc]

Run the numbers of your local sales taxes of each purchase in the last month... you will be amazed. All of a sudden the "gas tax" seems cheap.


I generally feel that education is under-funded and that many places do not use the property tax in an appropriate fashion. I can't complain about that tax, it seems straight-forward as a $0.65 per $100 is a lot but then you have to pay for education...

I would have personally voted "no" because I feel that "extras" such as Gym/Kitchen/Library are "extras" that might not need immediate attention. Classroom space on the other hand due to trailers tells me there is immediate capacity issues.

I also agree that "estimates" are a general no for me as well. Vote on hard numbers.

 

[SrDriver]

No amount of money alone will fix our educational system.

 

[Barkleymut]

Originally Posted By: pbm
Despite all the big tax increases our 'students' seem to become dumber.....could it be the students themselves maybe?


I do not think so. I believe that parents are the real key. Back when I was growing up (70's) most moms stayed at home and helped lil Johnny with his homework. Most kids were reading fairly well by the time they got into Kindergarten. My entire family is in education and several of them are Kindergarten teachers. They claim the real dropoff in entering students was in the late 80's through 2000. My mom said that she had quite a few kids that had NEVER been read to. I have my theories on why this has happened, it is mainly the system of 1 parent households where that parent is already working 50+ hours a week to put food on the table and simply is too tired to "parent" the way I was brought up. Schools can only do so much with a kid that does not get any help at home.

As for new taxes, I always vote no. They always start out really small and then 10 years later they say "just 8 more percent". Well my pay didn't increase 8% any of the last 20 years and I have learned to live just fine.