Uninstalling Remote Start

[JHZR2]

My 96 Ram CTD has a remote start under the dash, and an antenna on the glass.

It’s an MT so I don’t really want remote start. I wouldn’t use it anyway. We have one on our odyssey and have used it maybe three times ever.

I can’t find a manual, and can’t seem to get it to work, so that validates that I’d like to remove it.

The wiring is intense.

And has a double relay related with the starter.

OK, here are the wiring diagrams. The only thing I could find anywhere:

The good news I guess is that I know the wires that work the locks. And have some power to tap. That will simplify the install of a standard dumb keyless entry.

But is there anything else I should consider, particularly with the removal of those ignition relays, to avoid breaking, or frying, or getting a no-start scenario? I think I’ll need to reconnect OEM wiring to remove the relays. But I think it must also be set up to allow them to be bypassed for normal use.

Any takes based upon these diagrams?

Thanks!

 

[Trav]

If I understand it correctly the object is to remove it and eliminate the control box?

 

[TheOilWizard]

A remote start manual?

What happens if it's left in gear and remote start initiates?

 

[Slick3914]

I think the phrase “let a sleeping dog lie” applies here

 

[JHZR2]

If I understand it correctly the object is to remove it and eliminate the control box?

Yes. I’d like to install a regular keyless entry into this, which should be fine since all the wiring is tapped for power and control.

A remote start manual?

What happens if it's left in gear and remote start initiates?

Sure is. I assume the truck will jump…

 

[Nukeman7]

If I am reading the schematic correctly, you need to unplug the orange 4-pin plug that is directly under the blue plug in your photo. This plug should have 4 wires (orange, red, blue/black, and orange/black) coming from it. This will disable the relays from being able to remote start the engine.

To remove the dual relay pack, you will need to remove both red wires with 30A fuses from the battery positive (+) terminal. Then, cut the brown+white wire and the solid brown wire. If you have the "early version" relay pack, you will then need to reconnect (e.g., solder) the IGN 1 wire ends. If you have the "current version" relay pack, you will need to reconnect the IGN 2 wire ends.

Then, you will need to cut the gray wire connected to to IGN 2 (early version relay) or IGN 1 (current version relay).

It also would be wise to cut the brown wire from the main module that is connected to the "starter output" and both tan wires feeding the parking lights.

Finally, insulate all remaining cut wires with heat shrink tubing or electrical tape secured w/ small zip ties.

This should still allow the existing remote door locks and security alarm to continue working.

 

[CKN]

A remote start manual?

What happens if it's left in gear and remote start initiates?

It probably won't start. Vehicles "know stuff" these days. Even in '96

 

[CKN]

I think the phrase “let a sleeping dog lie” applies here

There was a guy on here who had a mini van. I think it might have been a Dodge. He didn't like the way the fan would blow in the climate control system on a certain setting. He tore his dashboard apart to"customize" the setting.

 

[TheOilWizard]

It probably won't start. Vehicles "know stuff" these days. Even in '96

Dangerous assumption. I think the OP is right, it would probably jump.

 

[Nukeman7]

As shown in the wiring schematic, the parking brake must be engaged for the remote start to work. While the vehicle may lurch forward, the brake should stall it if applied and adjusted correctly.

Years ago, a local stereo shop was installing a Viper-DEI security system with the remote start feature which was new at the time. Unbeknownst to the technician, the remote start function engaged as soon as he installed the main underhood fuse and the manual transmission was in gear! He was pinned to the back wall and tragically suffered debilitating leg injuries. I assume the rear drum parking brake was not adjusted correctly.

 

[atikovi]

Dangerous assumption. I think the OP is right, it would probably jump.

Every remote start system would have a clutch switch and a neutral safety switch.

 

[Nukeman7]

Every remote start system would have a clutch switch and a neutral safety switch.

The neutral safety switch is the clutch switch on all three of my manual transmission vehicles. If you put the gear lever in the neutral gate position, the starter will not crank unless the clutch pedal is depressed. As such, the wiring must bypass the clutch/neutral safety switch for a remote start to work; hence, the need to connect the white parking brake wire as the safety precaution. Otherwise, the remote start would only work if you are sitting in the driver's seat depressing the clutch pedal.

 

[atikovi]

As such, the wiring must bypass the clutch/neutral safety switch for a remote start to work; hence, the need to connect the white parking brake wire as the safety precaution.

Which is why remote start kits are only available on manuals that have a signal when the shift lever is in neutral. Many cars don't have a clutch switch which is why you see cars jerk forward when someone tries to start it in gear without stepping on the clutch.

 

[Nukeman7]

Which is why remote start kits are only available on manuals that have a signal when the shift lever is in neutral. Many cars don't have a clutch switch which is why you see cars jerk forward when someone tries to start it in gear without stepping on the clutch.

Can you identify a vehicle sold in the USA that has a signal when the shift lever is in neutral? Not saying they don't exist, but personally, I have never seen a manual vehicle that could be started in neutral unless it was an older car that was not built with a clutch pedal safety switch (like my '78 VW diesel Rabbit).

In any event, the OP's truck is outfitted with an aftermarket Crimestopper brand RS-795V remote start kit that can be installed on any vehicle (manual or automatic).

 

[atikovi]

In any event, the OP's truck is outfitted with an aftermarket Crimestopper brand RS-795V remote start kit that can be installed on any vehicle (manual or automatic).

That would be a huge liability for the manufacturer if there wasn't a way to make sure it only started in neutral.

 

[Nukeman7]

That would be a huge liability for the manufacturer if there wasn't a way to make sure it only started in neutral.

I agree with you about liability; however, look at the RS-795V wiring schematic in Post #1 and the *notation for connecting the white wire to the parking brake (-) ground input switch specifically for manual transmission vehicles. There is no other way to make this remote start system work if the clutch pedal safety switch is not bypassed on the OP's truck. Remember, this remote start system is from ~25 years ago when liability litigation was not as prevalent.

 

[JHZR2]

Can you identify a vehicle sold in the USA that has a signal when the shift lever is in neutral? Not saying they don't exist, but personally, I have never seen a manual vehicle that could be started in neutral unless it was an older car that was not built with a clutch pedal safety switch (like my '78 VW diesel Rabbit).

In any event, the OP's truck is outfitted with an aftermarket Crimestopper brand RS-795V remote start kit that can be installed on any vehicle (manual or automatic).

Correct. It was designed for either. And getting it out is the goal

The neutral safety switch is the clutch switch on all three of my manual transmission vehicles. If you put the gear lever in the neutral gate position, the starter will not crank unless the clutch pedal is depressed. As such, the wiring must bypass the clutch/neutral safety switch for a remote start to work; hence, the need to connect the white parking brake wire as the safety precaution. Otherwise, the remote start would only work if you are sitting in the driver's seat depressing the clutch pedal.

Agree; that’s my take. Parking brake will notionally provide safety if the thing is in gear. It also has a hood open sensing to avoid start if someone is working under the hood. I can’t seem to find the sensor for it though!

If I am reading the schematic correctly, you need to unplug the orange 4-pin plug that is directly under the blue plug in your photo. This plug should have 4 wires (orange, red, blue/black, and orange/black) coming from it. This will disable the relays from being able to remote start the engine.

To remove the dual relay pack, you will need to remove both red wires with 30A fuses from the battery positive (+) terminal. Then, cut the brown+white wire and the solid brown wire. If you have the "early version" relay pack, you will then need to reconnect (e.g., solder) the IGN 1 wire ends. If you have the "current version" relay pack, you will need to reconnect the IGN 2 wire ends.

Then, you will need to cut the gray wire connected to to IGN 2 (early version relay) or IGN 1 (current version relay).

It also would be wise to cut the brown wire from the main module that is connected to the "starter output" and both tan wires feeding the parking lights.

Finally, insulate all remaining cut wires with heat shrink tubing or electrical tape secured w/ small zip ties.

This should still allow the existing remote door locks and security alarm to continue working.

Thank you for this; your reply was the extra set of eyes I need to get rolling on this..

Just to be clear, I don’t want to use this unit’s keyless. I’ll install another much simpler and newer (yet basic) f keyless entry. After all, the schematic shows what wires give me what, so it’s easy to splice into power and the locking circuits.

The key is getting the old unit out/off and not messing up the key start sequence when the relays are no longer connected to the brain.

It’s the OE ignition ends thst I’m trying to reason through. The relays are designed, if I understand it correctly, the 87/87A terminals allow for a bypass of the relay under normal conditions - 87A is the normal condition for the relay, so it is closed between 30 and 87A, unless 85-86 are closed, which energizes the coil and closes 30 to 87. This allows the key to work normally unless the remote start energizes the relay, which results in it looking like there is voltage on the ign wire.

So right now the relay setup is just continuous for key use. If the remote starter is engaged it effectively energizes the acc/on settings, and then a relay pulses the starter circuit in lieu of turning the key.

I think…

 

[JHZR2]

If I am reading the schematic correctly, you need to unplug the orange 4-pin plug that is directly under the blue plug in your photo. This plug should have 4 wires (orange, red, blue/black, and orange/black) coming from it. This will disable the relays from being able to remote start the engine.

To remove the dual relay pack, you will need to remove both red wires with 30A fuses from the battery positive (+) terminal. Then, cut the brown+white wire and the solid brown wire. If you have the "early version" relay pack, you will then need to reconnect (e.g., solder) the IGN 1 wire ends. If you have the "current version" relay pack, you will need to reconnect the IGN 2 wire ends.

Then, you will need to cut the gray wire connected to to IGN 2 (early version relay) or IGN 1 (current version relay).

It also would be wise to cut the brown wire from the main module that is connected to the "starter output" and both tan wires feeding the parking lights.

Finally, insulate all remaining cut wires with heat shrink tubing or electrical tape secured w/ small zip ties.

This should still allow the existing remote door locks and security alarm to continue working.

Today I had some time to look some more at this.

I disconnected both batteries, then disconnected both relays. I went to start the truck and all was well.

I noticed that the relay is not either type shown in the manual.

Note this relay has 87a terminals at both connections. The manual indicates only one has the 87A.

I assume that means that the IGN 1/2 wires are NOT cut? If they were cut Inassume I’d get a no crank because the relay needs to be in place to give continuity in the de-energized state (30 to 87A) in order to allow crank.

Does this make sense?

Or am I forcing all load onto ign 1 or 2 when the relays are disconnected?

Can someone explain the purpose of ign 1 and 2? I thought it is to force some loads temporarily off when cranking?

Thanks!

 

[Nukeman7]

Today I had some time to look some more at this.

I disconnected both batteries, then disconnected both relays. I went to start the truck and all was well.

I noticed that the relay is not either type shown in the manual.

Note this relay has 87a terminals at both connections. The manual indicates only one has the 87A.

It is a tandem pair of relays that have been pieced together as one. They probably used two 5 pole relays since 4 pole relays are harder to source. The relay with the "extra" 87a terminal would be wired where 87a would replace the 87 position on a 4 pole relay.

I assume that means that the IGN 1/2 wires are NOT cut? If they were cut Inassume I’d get a no crank because the relay needs to be in place to give continuity in the de-energized state (30 to 87A) in order to allow crank.

Does this make sense?

Yes, it appears that if the IGN 1 (or IGN2) wire was cut, it would not crank with the relays unplugged.

Or am I forcing all load onto ign 1 or 2 when the relays are disconnected?

Can someone explain the purpose of ign 1 and 2? I thought it is to force some loads temporarily off when cranking?

Thanks!

As I understand it, IGN 1 powers up the accessories and the dashboard, but not the ignition circuit. IGN 2 cuts out some cursory accessories (e.g., radio, HVAC, etc.) to reduce load while energizing the ignition circuit. Start position keeps IGN 2 energized while sending the crank signal to the starter solenoid.

 

[Donald]

I had an aftermarket remote start installed in my Jeep Grand Cherokee. It would go out of its way to try and lock my out. Get out of the car with engine running to check the mail and it would lock the doors.