UK: Cost of charging an electric car surges by 42% - with prices nearing the same as petrol

[ripcord]

As rates rise, people will seek out solution. This is exactly what I did in late 2017. In March 2018 PG&E switched my solar project on. Little did I know what a good investment that would turn out to be.

Necessity is the Mother of invention.
Some people see problems; I see opportunity. What about you?

You must be able to stay home during the middle of the day to be able to charge your EV.

 

[LDM]

When that happens, there will be a market for a spoofer to make it seem that an EV is an electric stove. And then there will be a market for a spoofer detector.

And governments might want to prohibit electric companies from imposing higher rates to charge an EV. So there will be a market for lobbyists to get the government to back off. And elections will be fought over whether higher rates to charge an EV should be prohibited. And the electric company's lawyers will sue the government for interfering with their business practices. And so on and so on.

There will be lots of opportunities for fighting.

Or, maybe the electric companies will expand their generation capacity and enhance their networks. And then make lots of extra money. And that's where I will invest my money.

Good idea in theory but not in Illinois. Ameren will just bribe the politicians in Chicago to get what they want like usual. There may be opportunities for this in other states but not here. But I will never buy an EV anyway so it will have little effect on me. I also will not purchase any smart devices that can be controlled remotely. And hopefully by the time this nonsense becomes the standard, I will be retired and moved to another state.

 

[Astro14]

We can expect problems to be opportunity generators. In fact, around here EV demand is causing condos and apartments to install charging stations. Opportunity abounds if you are willing to try.

And those chargers are connected to California’s unreliable, underpowered, grid.

Hardly seems like a solution to anything.

More like an opportunity for condos and apartments to be able to market chargers as another amenity, like the rickety Universal machine in the corner marketed as a “gym”.

 

[George Bynum]

My friends in Belgium tell me its now 3Ka month to cool or heat their 1500SQ Ft houses.

3 thousand Euro a month?

 

[4WD]

Yes, though I suspect what we'll see is something that knows when you are charging your EV, likely as part of the Smart Meter system that's already in place. There is already communication available over the charge port, something that communicates the VIN to the utility company so that they know who to bill, and how much for, would make the most sense. This will be how they get the equivalent to the road tax we pay on fuel, which covers R&M of that infrastructure that EV's currently use for free. It will naturally penalize heavy vehicles (like it does with fuel consumption) because they will use more kWh.

Yup - surely they’ll have big brother install PLC’s that throttle or terminate …

 

[Bjornviken]

3 thousand Euro a month?

yes

 

[Bjornviken]

3 thousand Euro a month?

and it will be more to come since someone sabotage the North stream 1 and 2

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...bing-pressure-drop-at-second-russian-gas-link

 

[OVERKILL]

Yup - surely they’ll have big brother install PLC’s that throttle or terminate …

Yeah, and OCPP may already be part of some smart meters or they are upgradable to support it:
https://evadept.com/how-do-charging-stations-communicate-with-electric-cars/

All access and billing transactions are done between the charger and the car. No information about the electric car or its owner is shared with third parties. The security of this process is guaranteed by the ISO 15118 standard, which allows the electric car to be automatically identified and authorized on behalf of the owner. The same principle is applied to Tesla charging stations. Even the use of a J1772 to Tesla adapter does not interfere with the process of identifying the electric car during charging.

With the OCPP protocol, you can be sure that your equipment will be up to date for many years to come and that your chargers have the best control system.

And another resource:
https://www.openchargealliance.org/protocols/ocpp-201/

Looks like this is already well underway.

 

[JeffKeryk]

And those chargers are connected to California’s unreliable, underpowered, grid.

Hardly seems like a solution to anything.

More like an opportunity for condos and apartments to be able to market chargers as another amenity, like the rickety Universal machine in the corner marketed as a “gym”.

Grid quality is dependent on your location, to a large degree. Remote areas are more problematic. PG&E is now being investigated for criminal charges surrounding the Mosquito fire.
Actually, the charging network around here is really good and continues growing. The condos that are working on chargers tend to be $1M up; they will do it right. Demand is strong; perspective employees, for example, often ask about charging in the interview process; likewise employeers advertise it.

 

[ZZman]

not surprised. Public chargers should be used sparingly

 

[JeffKeryk]

You must be able to stay home during the middle of the day to be able to charge your EV.

I charge whenever I want, as my electric bill is next to nothing.

 

[4WD]

Grid quality is dependent on your location, to a large degree. Remote areas are more problematic.

100% - I’m on the side of (small town) that has Police/Fire/EMS … the only Hospital … AEP regional center (our PG&E) the main cell tower - water supply - and (insert drum roll) - Walmart ! Last call for load shedding

 

[UncleDave]

3 thousand Euro a month?

Correct.

 

[LDM]

Yeah, and OCPP may already be part of some smart meters or they are upgradable to support it:
https://evadept.com/how-do-charging-stations-communicate-with-electric-cars/



And another resource:
https://www.openchargealliance.org/protocols/ocpp-201/

Looks like this is already well underway.

Interesting read. Not sure how far along Ameren is in Illinois as they generally only release the info after they have secured what they are doing, aside from having the smart meters installed just about everywhere in the last few years. I believe my house was switched over 3 years ago if I remember correctly. They also keep trying to get people to sign up for Power Smart Pricing, where you pay the supply rate by the hour rather than a flat rate. Don't know anywhere that has done so personally but I don't imagine it being very convenient if you only want to run your devices at the lower rates. Most of the lower rates are barely below the flat rate anyway, while the peak rates are significantly higher. I imagine most people would end up with much higher billing using it unless they really wanted to limit their electric use to the lowest rate times.

 

[JeffKeryk]

100% - I’m on the side of (small town) that has Police/Fire/EMS … the only Hospital … AEP regional center (our PG&E) the main cell tower - water supply - and (insert drum roll) - Walmart ! Last call for load shedding

Don't get me wrong, I hate PG&E and their partner-in-crime PUC. My hope is enough demand will influence real change.
Left alone, we will get the status quo, which sucks. And burns down our forrests.

 

[Rand]

I charge whenever I want, as my electric bill is next to nothing.

eventually they wont let you freeload off the grid as you currently do, but for now congratulations.
I expect stiff grid connection fees and buying your solar at wholesale rates eventually, possibly even a distribution charge for all KWH sent to your house or bought. (not net as it currently is)
Either that or the government taxpayers or other consumers will subsidize you.. then welcome to energy bill welfare

 

[JeffKeryk]

eventually they wont let you freeload off the grid as you currently do, but for now congratulations.
I expect stiff grid connection fees and buying your solar at wholesale rates eventually, possibly even a distribution charge for all KWH sent to your house or bought. (not net as it currently is)
Either that or the government taxpayers or other consumers will subsidize you.. then welcome to energy bill welfare

I don't freeload off anything. They offered me the deal and I took it. Stupid post.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't freeload off anything. They offered me the deal and I took it. Stupid post.

He's technically right, as we've discussed before, FIT's and NEM's screw people that don't have them to incentivize people to install solar. And then they don't pay appropriate transmission charges, nor is the value of that electricity properly reflected in the price paid.

Yes, those are of course the terms of the deal, but it's one that only benefits those who are taking advantage of the scheme.

 

[JeffKeryk]

He's technically right, as we've discussed before, FIT's and NEM's screw people that don't have them to incentivize people to install solar. And then they don't pay appropriate transmission charges, nor is the value of that electricity properly reflected in the price paid.

Yes, those are of course the terms of the deal, but it's one that only benefits those who are taking advantage of the scheme.

No, I am not freeloading, nor am I not taking advantage of anyone. PG&E offered me the deal. They send me a bill and I pay it.

 

[OVERKILL]

No, I am not freeloading, nor am I not taking advantage of anyone. PG&E offered me the deal. They send me a bill and I pay it.

Would it make you feel better if I said PG&E was doing those things on your behalf through these deals?

The takeaway is not that you made a conscious decision to drive-up other ratepayers bills (though that is the result of these schemes) or not pay your fair share on delivery (though that is also the result of these schemes) simply that this is the result of these policies, policies that utilities like PG&E or the agencies/politicians driving them, cooked up to spur adoption of specific technologies that otherwise wouldn't have the uptake rate they wanted, mostly for the optics/virtue signalling value it provides.

We had similar schemes here in Ontario with MicroFIT and similar that people hopped all over because at $0.80/kWh, they were a guaranteed money maker. They didn't set out to screw other Ontario ratepayers, but that was ultimately the result.