UHP All Season Recommd'tions (Spec. Requirements)

[ajwan]

Hi all,

This is no ordinary generic "recommendations" post. I have some very specific requirements that'd I'd like to have fulfilled. I'd appreciate your help. My car is a 2013 Ford Focus ST. Stocks were Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 on a 235/40/18 (95Y, XL) size.

I've got Bridgestone RE970AS on currently and probably on its last 10000 km. It has a nice stiff sidewall and initial turn-in is excellent. I can't find too much fault in it compared to my stock tires (Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2) summers, with the added benefit of 0-5C temperature performance. But I do find its performance in light snow quite lacking here in Vancouver BC, where we get 2 weeks of snow per year max. Also, according to tirerack, the RE970AS isn't the most fuel efficient tire out there. Overall, the RE970AS are nice and feel fairly close to stock. But the directional tread (and hit to fuel consumption) puts me off. I'm looking for something asymmetrical for my next set.

This brings up why I want an all season in the first place (my car came with the Goodyears as stock). Here in rainy Metro Vancouver (Canada), we get snow maybe 2 weeks out of the year on average. I have dedicated winters, but I'd hate to switch out of summers for more than I have to. We get 0-7C temps here (including nights) a good 4-5 months out of the year; an unacceptable amount of time I'd need to have a dedicated winter on.

So I'm willing to trade off warm ultimate dry traction for something with barely acceptable snow traction, but able to be used to near freezing temps when raining/dry (and therefore, for up to 11 months of the year). But a key requirement for me is nice stiff sidewalls. Initial turn-in feeling is a must. Nothing annoys me more than a tire that gives that noodling feeling when executing a lane change at highway speeds.

My candidates:
-Pirelli P-Zero All Season (newly announced fall/winter 2014)
-Goodyear F1 Asymmetric All Season
-Cooper Zeon RS3-A
-Toyo Proxes 4 Plus

The reason I brought up the RS3-A is that the display model at [censored] tire seemed to have some nice stiff sidewalls. And I'm seriously considering these but not sure how they'd measure up to the RE970AS I have now.

Thanks!

 

[Quattro Pete]

IMO, you're asking for impossible.

 

[Jimzz]

I have the Cooper Zeon RS3-A on my CTS. I wanted a better handling tire but also some winter ability.

No snow yet but rain and dry has been great. No major noise and handling is better than the last set.

Only have maybe 5k on them so far.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

But a $1000 beater on craigslist / kijiji and equip it with good tires ... or use the winters you have for your Focus.

If the car is driven like a Focus ST was designed, I wouldn't want to hinder performance with a set of all seasons that would be decent enough to have any snow traction.

 

[ajwan]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
IMO, you're asking for impossible.



The RE970s were pretty close for my needs. All I'd change on these would be an asymmetrical and I think that should be it.

 

[ajwan]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
But a $1000 beater on craigslist / kijiji and equip it with good tires ... or use the winters you have for your Focus.

If the car is driven like a Focus ST was designed, I wouldn't want to hinder performance with a set of all seasons that would be decent enough to have any snow traction.


Question for you is whether having dedicated winters for 4-5 months of the year is acceptable? I used to live in Ottawa, so changing over to winters from December to late March is a given. Tricky climate here in Metro Vancouver. Don't necessarily have to have winters on for that long here.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Quote:
The RE970s were pretty close for my needs. All I'd change on these would be an asymmetrical and I think that should be it.


I have RE970s on my 530i, and they suck in snow. That's why I use dedicated winter tires. Asymmetric tread design isn't what's making their winter traction poor. IMO, it is the limited number of sipes and possibly the tread compound that just becomes too hard in cold weather to provide enough grip. Alas, if you add more sipes, the tire will become more squirmy and you'll lose that crisp steering response.

I also had Conti DWS. They were marginally better in snow (compared to RE970) but steering response wasn't great.

 

[ajwan]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:
The RE970s were pretty close for my needs. All I'd change on these would be an asymmetrical and I think that should be it.


I have RE970s on my 530i, and they suck in snow. That's why I use dedicated winter tires. Asymmetric tread design isn't what's making their winter traction poor. IMO, it is the limited number of sipes and possibly the tread compound that just becomes too hard in cold weather to provide enough grip. Alas, if you add more sipes, the tire will become more squirmy and you'll lose that crisp steering response.

I also had Conti DWS. They were marginally better in snow (compared to RE970) but steering response wasn't great.



Thanks for your reply. Exactly why I'm avoiding the DWS. For the 970s, I'm completely satisfied with them from 0-7C (just not in snow!). I've been able to get away so far this winter with the 970s on although the next snap and snow may force me to change over to my winters finally.

I believe the 970s being a directional is causing me shorter than advertised tread-life because you're restricted to front-back rotation only. Driver side is wearing faster.

Really just trying to narrow my choices to a few finalists and elicit experiences from the community.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
But a $1000 beater on craigslist / kijiji and equip it with good tires ... or use the winters you have for your Focus.

If the car is driven like a Focus ST was designed, I wouldn't want to hinder performance with a set of all seasons that would be decent enough to have any snow traction.


If you drive a Focus ST as designed you'll lose your license. Ultra high performance tires still allow amazing feats that are not legal!

That being said Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 are EXCELLENT! Passable winter traction, just wait for the plows. I cannot stand winter tires much either, they are not that fun on dry/wet/warm days that are majority of winter.

 

[Quattro Pete]

If you trust this TR test, the Goodyear F1 did slightly better than RE970 in snow...

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=177

TR praised the F1 for its quick steering response.

Pilot Sport A/S 3 would be another one to consider, but from what I've read, they all still suck in snow, maybe just slightly less so than the RE970s.

 

[ajwan]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: Miller88
But a $1000 beater on craigslist / kijiji and equip it with good tires ... or use the winters you have for your Focus.

If the car is driven like a Focus ST was designed, I wouldn't want to hinder performance with a set of all seasons that would be decent enough to have any snow traction.


If you drive a Focus ST as designed you'll lose your license. Ultra high performance tires still allow amazing feats that are not legal!

That being said Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 are EXCELLENT! Passable winter traction, just wait for the plows. I cannot stand winter tires much either, they are not that fun on dry/wet/warm days that are majority of winter.


That's awesome! Considered the PS A/S 3s. I've heard good things about them. How do you find the sidewalls? I went to check them in person and found them a little soft compared to others in this class (and the 970AS).

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
IMO, you're asking for impossible.




Agreed. You need to prioritize.

 

[ajwan]

1) Firm sidewall (initial turn-in)/feel
2) On the 3-season side of the UHP all season spectrum (this will make them acceptable in the 0-7C range).
3) Snow performance in a pinch (barely acceptable)
4) Fuel economy.

Thanks!

 

[chrisri]

Best summer performance tyre for cold, rainy weather IMO is Uniroyal RainSport 3. Grip in rain is brilliant, even when temperature are near freezing. They are fine also for little snow (for a performance summer tyre).
What I'm not sure if this tyre is available in Canada. There seems to be two different Uniroyal companies, one in Europe, and one in America.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: ajwan
1) Firm sidewall (initial turn-in)/feel
2) On the 3-season side of the UHP all season spectrum (this will make them acceptable in the 0-7C range).
3) Snow performance in a pinch (barely acceptable)
4) Fuel economy.

Thanks!

Well, the RE970 already fits this bill. But if you need new tires, you might as well give one of the others a try (Pilot A/S 3 or Goodyear F1) in hopes of getting marginally better snow performance. Don't expect miracles though.

They're also non-directional, so it should help you with side to side rotations.

 

[ajwan]

Thanks for the input. As I suspected, maybe the A/S variant of my summers. Any suggestions from the lesser known brands?

Thanks!

 

[geeman789]

UHP and "all-season" don't really go well together...

The PILOT A/S 3 might be an option... I have driven these on bare roads, dry and wet, at temps as low as -5*C... and they were very good. HOWEVER...

I did see a used set at Costco one day...after a big winter storm in November... thought that was strange, so I asked the tire manager why... he said they were returned because the customer said they were ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE in deep snow and on ice... and they are supposed to be ALL SEASONS...

Not sure what the customer was expecting, winter performance wise... but looking at the tread design, I'm pretty sure deep snow performance was not a priority...

 

[ajwan]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
UHP and "all-season" don't really go well together...

The PILOT A/S 3 might be an option... I have driven these on bare roads, dry and wet, at temps as low as -5*C... and they were very good. HOWEVER...

I did see a used set at Costco one day...after a big winter storm in November... thought that was strange, so I asked the tire manager why... he said they were returned because the customer said they were ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE in deep snow and on ice... and they are supposed to be ALL SEASONS...

Not sure what the customer was expecting, winter performance wise... but looking at the tread design, I'm pretty sure deep snow performance was not a priority...


I agree, I think it's completely unacceptable for anyone to expect anything out of all-seasons in winter and less than 0C except when it's bare and if possible, very light snow only. But OTOH, this makes an all season (UHP) ideal for my neck of the woods as it's raining and between 0-7C (at night) for at least 5 or so months of the year!

That's the dilemma for me. If using a dedicated summer/winter combo, that would mean a performance tire for barely more than half a year. Better to have a trade-off in ultimate moderate-warm dry traction for a short time and be able to use a "performance" all season for 11 months of the year, for me at least.

 

[Quest]

0~7C for most part of PNW winter weather, but you also have to consider the unanticipated (like right now, -5C last nite @ YVR airport, with windchills a bit further down below). That's when moisture trapped on the surface of the road will ice up, or form black ice....what happens next while you are on your all-seasons is pretty much everyone's guess.

Seriously, you have to prioritise your needs. Even my wifey's car is already on winter set of tires (we have a set of all-seasons turanza serenity for the rest of the seasons) and that helped her get past that incline south on rupert st. during winter months with full confidence.

I'm on all-weather, RAC-approved Hankook 4S on my car and I don't have to change them out even during winter months.

*something to consider*

Q.

 

[tommygunn]

The Zeon RS3A is the OE tire on the non-ST Focus. Unfortunately, they're made in China.

Out of the tires you listed, I'd take the Goodyears. Not a fan of Chinese Coopers, not a fan of Pirelli, and Toyo's distribution is too limited (although that may not be the case in Canada).