U.S. Retail Electricity Rate Trends Analysis

[Astro_Guy]

See U.S. Retail Electricity Rate Trends Analysis which links to a 22 page report. This report upends the narrative that data centers are the cause of recent price increases. It focuses heavily on the Northeast (NYISO + ISONE,) California and the middle Atlantic states (PJM.)

One of the interesting takeaways is that the states where utilities are no longer allowed to own generation, including New York, New England and Pennsylvania have all seen above average price increases. That de-coupling was supposed to promote supply competition and keep rates lower. How is that working out?

Another takeaway was that Virginia has seen lower than average rate increses in spite of the heavy concentration of data centers. Untilities in Virginia do own their generation; apparently vertical integration works.

The study goes on to say that rate increases in California are due to a combination of wildfire mitigation and the scheme by which utilities pay homeowners for their excess rooftop solar production. Personally I am looking forward to @JeffKeryk remarks on that one.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Regarding my solar project, the offer PG&E made was the biggest no-brainer in the world. I get close to retail for generation, but there are other costs so it is not dollar for dollar by any means. In fact, they added a new "base connection fee" in addition to other invoice items.

PG&E did not incur any costs to get my panel generation which occurs at the highest time of usage. The cost of generation was all mine. I sell it back to them on their terms.

PG&E has lowered the price of electricity a couple times over the past 2 years. But it is still sky high.
Do I trust PG&E or the PUC? Heck no.

And yes; their negligence burns down our forrests.

 

[dogememe]

It depends so much on the utility.

Yes power all over California is much more expensive than average but if you compare the rates SMUD (Sacramento) customers pay it’s like half of what PG&E customers pay. SMUD also delivers far better reliability.

The difference is that SMUD is a non profit entity and PG&E is a for profit business.

I am fine with business and capitalism and all that stuff but PG&E is truly awful because not only is it expensive but it’s unreliable. And you don’t have a choice! Any time the consumer does not have a choice the company will rip them off… that’s good business for them!

The biggest problem is the PUC.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Regarding my solar project, the offer PG&E made was the biggest no-brainer in the world. I get close to retail for generation, but there are other costs so it is not dollar for dollar by any means. In fact, they added a new "base connection fee" in addition to other invoice items.

Here where I live any solar generation offsets purchases one for one (21.3 cents/kWh) over the course of the deal year. Any excess is purchased at their generation cost or 10.2 cents per kWh. I don't operate at a surplus so this doesn't affect me.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Here where I live any solar generation offsets purchases one for one (21.3 cents/kWh) over the course of the deal year. Any excess is purchased at their generation cost or 10.2 cents per kWh. I don't operate at a surplus so this doesn't affect me.

I don't operate at a surplus either; PG&E had limits on how much generation you could install. Wish I had installed more, but it's difficult to predict the future... I get 36 cents per kWh but the peak cost times can be double that. Plus there are other charges.

 

[Pew]

Yup they added another 9.66 cents per kwh, nearly doubling. 3 years ago I as paying $40-50 in electricity, now its $110/month.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yup they added another 9.66 cents per kwh, nearly doubling. 3 years ago I as paying $40-50 in electricity, now its $110/month.

That's a flat-out bargain around here.

 

[k1xv]

I worked as a ratepayer advocate from 1976 through the 1990s. The transformation of generation into a so called 'competitive market" was a reaction to utilities getting involved in nuclear projects when then had cost overruns of over 1000%. The thought was, if generation owners had to compete, they would be forced to be more efficient.
Well, first, before the generation plants were converted to the "competitive market", the utilities that owned these economic dinosaurs were bailed out by ratepayers. A calculation was made of how much these plants were actually worth. To the extent that the book cost exceed the actual value, this amount was called "stranded costs" and the utilities were permitted to collect these costs from the ratepayers anyway.

Then, it turned out, that to build more generation, you had to plan it at least 5 years before it was to come on the line, and nobody was sure what the market would be like that far in the future. So the investment risk went way up, and investment was discouraged from actually taking place. All that got built was cheap investment capacity that could be built quickly, and committed to a long term contract.

Deregulation was the wrong answer to the cost overrun problem. The better answer would have been better management, and selection of generation technologies that had less exposure to cost surprises.

 

[Pew]

That's a flat-out bargain around here.

I'll have to check my next bill, but I think that puts us up around 21 cents/kwh. I don't recall correctly if it was "added 9 cents" or "just 9 cents" for the increase of delivery fee.

What sucks in these cases is that most Chicago buildings and inner/middle old suburbs are electric heating and not NatGas, so I can't imagine what their bill in the winters are gonna be.

 

[Fitter30]

The demand or what they charge to deliver the power has gone up drastically. Thats almost a third of my bill.

 

[UncleDave]

See U.S. Retail Electricity Rate Trends Analysis which links to a 22 page report. This report upends the narrative that data centers are the cause of recent price increases. It focuses heavily on the Northeast (NYISO + ISONE,) California and the middle Atlantic states (PJM.)

One of the interesting takeaways is that the states where utilities are no longer allowed to own generation, including New York, New England and Pennsylvania have all seen above average price increases. That de-coupling was supposed to promote supply competition and keep rates lower. How is that working out?

Another takeaway was that Virginia has seen lower than average rate increses in spite of the heavy concentration of data centers. Untilities in Virginia do own their generation; apparently vertical integration works.

The study goes on to say that rate increases in California are due to a combination of wildfire mitigation and the scheme by which utilities pay homeowners for their excess rooftop solar production. Personally I am looking forward to @JeffKeryk remarks on that one.

When it comes to the California data - this report leans on the CPUC report heavily which Lawrence Berkley National Labs and others disagree with. They find cost shift to be fractions of pennies not the billions claimed.

Regardless the new NEM 3.0 destroys solar viability, mandating new housing have it , while the power company reaps the rewards with the homeowner carrying the cost. In other words - they don't want solar to benefit the homeowner, they get to steal the power you might over produce and sell it for list price to everyone else. If you want any benefit you have to buy batteries.

Ok then I'll buy batteries - but when I have a roof full of solar and batteries to boot - why do I need them?
Why not just say good bye to the power company - NOT SO FAST there partner. You cant do that.

If you want to find out where the subsidy really stands - ask why the state doesn't allow currently connected solar homes to simply withdraw from the grid and go it alone?

Grid defection is illegal - if you were ever connected you have to stay connected, because after all somebody has tp pay for those pensions, retirement plans and and the cities they have burned down - and it isnt going to be them. Its us.

 

[alarmguy]

That's a flat-out bargain around here.

Here is one for you.
I pay 7.9 cents a kilowatt hour except for three hours of peak time which is 19 cents a kilowatt hour
Plus a $35 connection charge

 

[Astro_Guy]

Grid defection is illegal - if you were ever connected you have to stay connected, because after all somebody has tp pay for those pensions, retirement plans and and the cities they have burned down - and it isnt going to be them. Its us.

That's sad but then we are talking about California. Elections have consequences.

 

[UncleDave]

That's sad but then we are talking about California. Elections have consequences.

Yes they do.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Here is one for you.
I pay 7.9 cents a kilowatt hour except for three hours of peak time which is 19 cents a kilowatt hour
Plus a $35 connection charge

Stop. You're killing me AG!

 

[alarmguy]

Stop. You're killing me AG!

You can see how your solar pays off over there compared to here that is for sure

 

[JeffKeryk]

You can see how your solar pays off over there compared to here that is for sure

The solar project has proven to be far better than I calculated, with the rising energy costs. Wish I had bought more. But that's hindsight for ya.

 

[Astro_Guy]

The solar project has proven to be far better than I calculated, with the rising energy costs. Wish I had bought more. But that's hindsight for ya.

My ROI is running north of double the ten year treasury note yield. Nothing to complain about there...

 

[Astro_Guy]

I pay 7.9 cents a kilowatt hour except for three hours of peak time which is 19 cents a kilowatt hour
Plus a $35 connection charge

My folks live in France where they have a national energy strategy. It's predominantly nuclear and there is a lot of surplus available at night. They have a heat pump water heater that fills a large storeage tank at night when demand is low. It seems as if common sense approaches could work here, but what do I know?

 

[JeffKeryk]

My ROI is running north of double the ten year treasury note yield. Nothing to complain about there...

Well done! Sometimes you get lucky. I haven't thought about my electricity bill for years now. I do shudder when I others tell me what they are paying. Sheesh.