Two warranty related questions

[widman]

Let's say for sake of argument (although I doubt it would happen) that you decide to use Amsoil and you have an engine problem that they don't want to repair under warranty because of the oil.

With a few minute on this board and others, I'm sure you can come up with a dozen dealers of the same brand that use Amsoil under warranty. I know the Ford dealer in Warrenton, Va. gives you the option, with posters around the shop.

If you produce dealers recommending it, the manufacturer will have a real hard time denying the claim.

 

[Riptide]

But the manufacturer could still point to the manual and deny the claim based on that. If they have a dealer out there making recommendations against what they put in the manual then they could easily say thanks for pointing that out, we'll give them a call now too, see you in court.

As has been mentioned already several times. Even if you go to court and win you still lose. Noone wants to end up there and if you don't follow the manual then you are more likely to end up there.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
One thing I will comment about.

If the dealer says ANYTHING is ok, ask them to put it on paper. Because the MFG could care less what the dealer said if it is different from the manual.

If the dealer will not put it on paper, their word is worth nothing. The reason why they will not put it on paper is because it will be your paid lawyer showing it to the court when you sue them.

Word of mouth does not work too well.

Take care, bill

PS: If you call the MFG and they say something is ok and is different from the manual, ask them to send it to you on paper.


I can assure you after dealing with this dealership since the early 1970's and the current service manager since the early 1990's that they will stand behind their word. They have done so the entire time my family has done business with them. Believe it or not this is an honest to God decent car dealership from top to bottom.

I don't expect them to step up and cover something Chrysler refuses to or anything if I were to use RP in the new truck. I wasn't trying to imply that. However, barring Chrysler actually getting involved and refusing soemthing I can tell you with complete confidence that I will get no hassle from the dealer for the RP. They won't refuse warranty on anything for me because of the RP. I would only run into issues if Chrysler got involved.

It is a risk I am still debating taking. I didn't trust the GM dealers around here when I had the Equinox thus I used 100% the right oil. I get the point you are making but it really doesn't apply to these guys.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Warranty Claims and Dealer payments are a complex issue!

Dealers make Warranty Claims - the Manufacturer honours or dishonours them. The gap in between is where it matters. Most Manufacturers keep sophisticated databases on Warranty matters and have done for at least the last 55 years that I know of. They are used to modify components or production practices - or both! They are also used to evaluate the substance of Dealer and end user Claims!!

Factory payments to Dealers do not always cover anywhere near the full cost of the Claim - be careful and use a Manufacturers Approved and Listed product is my practiced advice when under any sort of Warranty. Some of my engine Warranty periods were out to 1m kms (620k miles)- and engines cost around $A50000

Many Dealers will be "shakey" over the next few years and won't tolerate "unproductive" Claims - the NA Manufacturers are too - be advised!

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
One thing I will comment about.

If the dealer says ANYTHING is ok, ask them to put it on paper. Because the MFG could care less what the dealer said if it is different from the manual.

If the dealer will not put it on paper, their word is worth nothing. The reason why they will not put it on paper is because it will be your paid lawyer showing it to the court when you sue them.

Word of mouth does not work too well.

Take care, bill

PS: If you call the MFG and they say something is ok and is different from the manual, ask them to send it to you on paper.


I can assure you after dealing with this dealership since the early 1970's and the current service manager since the early 1990's that they will stand behind their word. They have done so the entire time my family has done business with them. Believe it or not this is an honest to God decent car dealership from top to bottom.

I don't expect them to step up and cover something Chrysler refuses to or anything if I were to use RP in the new truck. I wasn't trying to imply that. However, barring Chrysler actually getting involved and refusing soemthing I can tell you with complete confidence that I will get no hassle from the dealer for the RP. They won't refuse warranty on anything for me because of the RP. I would only run into issues if Chrysler got involved.

It is a risk I am still debating taking. I didn't trust the GM dealers around here when I had the Equinox thus I used 100% the right oil. I get the point you are making but it really doesn't apply to these guys.


My point is for folks reading this (we get more reading than our 22k members) that while YOUR dealership *may* help you, the fact is unless it is in print, it is useless in a court of law.

And if you deviate from the manual and have a problem, there is a greater chance that you will end up in court or arbitration and they *will* go by the written word.

That is all I'm trying to get at.

Take care, bill

 

[NHHEMI]

Bill;

Anyone who has read anything by me knows I am pretty much a stickler for the rules. I also have worked dealer service myself. I know how it works and I am not someone that advocates going against the owner's manual. I am lucky in that I have a good relationship with my dealership and the guys there actually have a brain and some common sense. When I am forced to deal outside of that dealership I fall back to following the manual 100%.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Warranty Claims and Dealer payments are a complex issue!

Dealers make Warranty Claims - the Manufacturer honours or dishonours them. The gap in between is where it matters. Most Manufacturers keep sophisticated databases on Warranty matters and have done for at least the last 55 years that I know of. They are used to modify components or production practices - or both! They are also used to evaluate the substance of Dealer and end user Claims!!

Factory payments to Dealers do not always cover anywhere near the full cost of the Claim - be careful and use a Manufacturers Approved and Listed product is my practiced advice when under any sort of Warranty. Some of my engine Warranty periods were out to 1m kms (620k miles)- and engines cost around $A50000

Many Dealers will be "shakey" over the next few years and won't tolerate "unproductive" Claims - the NA Manufacturers are too - be advised!


Doug;

I have worked in both parts and service for dealerships as well as aftermarket parts for many years( I don't now but I did ). I am very familiar with how it all works.

My point is simply this dealer will not hassle me for using the RP. Barring a catastophic engine failure that the mfg investigated I would have no issue getting repairs to the engine, if needed, covered by this dealer if using RP. Where other dealers may hassle me for the RP this one will not.

At the same time I fully acknowledge the risk I would be taking if something serious happened and Chrysler decided to get involved. If that happened( it is not set in stone they would )I wouldn't expect the dealer to step up and cover anything Chrysler refused. At that point I would have to say OK I took the risk and now I have to pay.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
NIHEMI - This Forum becomes quite emotive about certail issues

IMHO it should always be remembered that some people reading our Posts are "novices" in the Automotive World and take statements made by well meaning people (non purveyors) as absolute

This is why I tend to pick up on some statements made by purveyors on BITOG that cannot be backed up by facts

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm looking at Amsoil's website now. SAE 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil. Recommended for applications requiring 5W20 or 0W20. API Service SM/CF, SL, SJ..........ILSAC GF-4, 3............

What would be the problem using this in a new car calling for API SM, ILSAC GF-4 oil? It says it meets warranty requirements for all domestic and imported passenger cars, turbo and non-turbo.

Seems clear to me, that if you wanted to use this oil in your new car and followed the mfg suggested OCI's you'd be GTG. Keep it in the engine for 1 year or 25,000 miles and you're asking for trouble, unless the mfg says its OK. That's true of any oil if you're looking to be warranty compliant though.

Frank D


Frank:

Key words: Recommended For.

It means that Amsoil has done their own testing and that based on those results they RECOMMEND it for that application.

It is not APPROVED for that application.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

A Warranty is just an insurance policy to cover the specific parts failure. If you want to use the OEM warranty, then follow the guidelines of that Warranty-insurance policy.

If you want to use an oil that meets the specification/s of the OEM and have alot of money to fight them in court via the Federal Act to protect you the Magnuson-Moss Act is your insurance policy so to speak.

Or you could use Amsoils insurance policy. Bottom line is " It is imperitive that you follow the rules of the insurance plan you choose to use."

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm looking at Amsoil's website now. SAE 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil. Recommended for applications requiring 5W20 or 0W20. API Service SM/CF, SL, SJ..........ILSAC GF-4, 3............

What would be the problem using this in a new car calling for API SM, ILSAC GF-4 oil? It says it meets warranty requirements for all domestic and imported passenger cars, turbo and non-turbo.

Seems clear to me, that if you wanted to use this oil in your new car and followed the mfg suggested OCI's you'd be GTG. Keep it in the engine for 1 year or 25,000 miles and you're asking for trouble, unless the mfg says its OK. That's true of any oil if you're looking to be warranty compliant though.

Frank D


Frank:

Key words: Recommended For.

It means that Amsoil has done their own testing and that based on those results they RECOMMEND it for that application.

It is not APPROVED for that application.


Thanks..........Now I'm confused because: It says it meets warranty requirements for all domestic and imported passenger cars, turbo and non-turbo.


That leads me to believe it meets the requirements, and would therefore be an acceptable oil to use to satisfy a warranty as long as you do 6 month OCI's or 7500 miles in my case??????????????

Frank D

 

[buster]

Companies like Amsoil work closely with additive suppliers on these issues to make sure their oils exceed API requirements. They often buy higher quality additives and that is why the price is higher. It's not some secret or mystery. lol

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm looking at Amsoil's website now. SAE 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil. Recommended for applications requiring 5W20 or 0W20. API Service SM/CF, SL, SJ..........ILSAC GF-4, 3............

What would be the problem using this in a new car calling for API SM, ILSAC GF-4 oil? It says it meets warranty requirements for all domestic and imported passenger cars, turbo and non-turbo.

Seems clear to me, that if you wanted to use this oil in your new car and followed the mfg suggested OCI's you'd be GTG. Keep it in the engine for 1 year or 25,000 miles and you're asking for trouble, unless the mfg says its OK. That's true of any oil if you're looking to be warranty compliant though.

Frank D


Frank:

Key words: Recommended For.

It means that Amsoil has done their own testing and that based on those results they RECOMMEND it for that application.

It is not APPROVED for that application.


Thanks..........Now I'm confused because: It says it meets warranty requirements for all domestic and imported passenger cars, turbo and non-turbo.


That leads me to believe it meets the requirements, and would therefore be an acceptable oil to use to satisfy a warranty as long as you do 6 month OCI's or 7500 miles in my case??????????????

Frank D


They offer their own warranty.

If you are concerned about it being APPROVED, use the XL series oil. It is API approved.

Otherwise, you can just use their warranty.

 

[demarpaint]

I guess the word API "Service" is the key? If you see API SM.......etc. then it meets the API certification and is accepted by the car maker? If it says API "Service" SM.....etc then its covered by their warranty? I think I have it now. The XL series says API SM.....etc. The others say API "Service"..


Thanks,
Frank D

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I guess the word API "Service" is the key? If you see API SM.......etc. then it meets the API certification and is accepted by the car maker? If it says API "Service" SM.....etc then its covered by their warranty? I think I have it now. The XL series says API SM.....etc. The others say API "Service"..


Thanks,
Frank D


I think what you need to look at is do they say an oil is actually API CERTIFIED not just that they say it MEETS a particular API rating. IF you want to use a truly certified oil make sure it actually is certified. If you want to run Amsoil and use an actual API certified oil use an oil from their one oil line( mentiuoned by others ^^^ )that is actually certified.

BTW - SM indicates the API "service Level" the oil meets. API uses the term service level to indicate the standard the oil meets. = SJ, SL, SM ,etc... A company can claim their oil meets service level SM but that doesn't make it certified.