Help Me Understand Warranty Concerns Better

[Jehartley]

This is an argument my friend and I have been having. He says using Amsoil (not the XL line, but all other options) will not void your vehicle warranty. I disagree. I think that is a very blanket statement. I don’t know what all auto manufacturers say in their manual, but in GM’s case, Amsoil will most certainly void your warranty….unless I am reading the manual wrong.

Now, I understand that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prevents an automaker from requiring a specific brand of oil without providing it for free, but that isn’t what I am referring to.

My GM owner’s manual specifically says that, “Notice: Use only engine oil identified as meeting GM Standard GM6094M and showing the American Petroleum Institute Certified For Gasoline Engines starburst symbol. Failure to use the recommended oil can result in engine damage not covered by
the vehicle warranty.”

It also says that three things should be met:
1. Use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM6094M
2. Use 5w30 weight.
3. Bottle has to have the American Petroleum Institute
(API)Star burst Symbol.

Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple all meet 1 & 2, but not 3. So, am I right in saying that they would void GM’s warranty? If I am wrong, then tell me how based on what GM's manual says.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Jehartley

It also says that three things should be met:
1. Use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM6094M
2. Use 5w30 weight.
3. Bottle has to have the American Petroleum Institute
(API)Star burst Symbol.

Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple all meet 1 & 2, but not 3.

Actually, they don't meet #1 either. If you pay attention to the wording, they are recommended (by Amsoil or by RP) for applications requiring these specs, but they don't officially meet them. Their oils haven't been submitted to GM for official certification. Maybe if they have submitted it for testing, they would have passed. Maybe not. We won't know until they do.

Quote:

So, am I right in saying that they would void GM’s warranty? If I am wrong, then tell me how based on what GM's manual says.

Well, I think that GM would have to prove that it was the un-spec'd oil that caused the problem. But, if GM wants to be difficult about it, this process may take a lot of time and in the meantime you will be stuck with a broken vehicle while they're "carrying out" their investigation.

 

[d00df00d]

Using a non-approved oil won't void the warranty per se. The concern is that IF a problem happens, and IF it's related to the oil, the manufacturer/dealer might have grounds to deny you warranty service. That's all. It's not like they'll refuse to fix your AC system if you use the wrong oil.

By the way, Amsoil, Red Line, and Royal Purple all claim to "meet or exceed" GM6094M, but they don't actually carry the official approval. FYI.


EDIT: Touché, Quattro Pete. Touché.

 

[DC84]

Most likely it will not be a problem. Ive worked for several dealers and none of them ever pressed the issue of what oil was used. Most techs don't care or even have a clue about different oils and dont bother to ask what has been used. Its also rare for any modern engine thats still under warranty to fail due to an oil issue. Dealers bulk oil is usually the cheapest junk they can find and it wouldn't be shocking to find that it doesn't meet GM's requirements either.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jehartley

Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple all meet 1 & 2, but not 3.

Actually, they don't meet #1 either. If you pay attention to the wording, they are recommended (by Amsoil or by RP) for applications requiring these specs, but they don't officially meet them. Their oils haven't been submitted to GM for official certification. Maybe if they have submitted it for testing, they would have passed. Maybe not. We won't know until they do.


Actually, we do KNOW that RP not only meets but that it exceeds GM6094M( and I assume so does Amsoil ). All GM6094M requires, performance wise from the oil, is that an oil flow to a certain level at a set temp below zero( I have the info somewhere - had anyway when I had my Chevy's from 05-07 may be gone? - but don't want to post inaccurate info ). I have/had the test data from RP as well. It easily exceeds the oil standard performance requirements in question( 5w30 anyway ). An oil does not need to be suubmitted for certification to know if it meets or exceeds this oil standard.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d


EDIT: Touché, Quattro Pete. Touché.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
An oil does not need to be suubmitted for certification to know if it meets or exceeds this oil standard.

Well, if that's the case, then I stand corrected.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Jehartley
This is an argument my friend and I have been having. He says using Amsoil (not the XL line, but all other options) will not void your vehicle warranty. I disagree. I think that is a very blanket statement. I don’t know what all auto manufacturers say in their manual, but in GM’s case, Amsoil will most certainly void your warranty….unless I am reading the manual wrong.

Now, I understand that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prevents an automaker from requiring a specific brand of oil without providing it for free, but that isn’t what I am referring to.

My GM owner’s manual specifically says that, “Notice: Use only engine oil identified as meeting GM Standard GM6094M and showing the American Petroleum Institute Certified For Gasoline Engines starburst symbol. Failure to use the recommended oil can result in engine damage not covered by
the vehicle warranty.”

It also says that three things should be met:
1. Use only an oil that meets GM Standard GM6094M
2. Use 5w30 weight.
3. Bottle has to have the American Petroleum Institute
(API)Star burst Symbol.

Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple all meet 1 & 2, but not 3. So, am I right in saying that they would void GM’s warranty? If I am wrong, then tell me how based on what GM's manual says.


Easy...

Use a 5w30 that meets or exceeds GM6094M( does not need to be certified/approved by the mfg - just meet or exceed )and that is API Certified with the Starburst( actually does need to have this ). Change it within the allowed for time frame set forth in your owner's manual.

One of the posters above is right in that your entire warranty is not automatically voided just because you don't follow the oil change requirements. It will only be an issue if you have some kind of internal engine issue. You can rest assured if you do that your maintenance history will most likely be questioned. I respectfully disagree with the poster that said otherwise above.

I have a family member with a GM engine that failed in 06 and not only did GM get involved and ask for maintenance records( all work done at dealer so they had it )but they took an oil sample to boot we were told. I worked at a Ford dealer in parts and service and we routinely asked for proof of maintenance when issues arose. These days with all auto mfg's feeling the financial pinch warranty work is being scrutinized more than ever. As a rule on big items like an engine failure the auto mfg gets a rep involved who takes decisions away from the dealer anyway. So a dealer who doesn't care gets taken out of the mix and someone who's job it is to be critical and try and find an out for the car mfg takes over.

Better to be safe than sorry. Even if you are right you may have to go to court and fight for coverage. Your car sits during tha time and you end up with legal bills costing more than the repair. Car mfg's know this and use it. If you want to use Amsoil( you mention it specifically )that is no problem at all. Just use their XL 5w30 as it meets all your requirements including API certification with the Starburst and change it on time and you are good to go.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
An oil does not need to be suubmitted for certification to know if it meets or exceeds this oil standard.

Well, if that's the case, then I stand corrected.


I didn't mean that to be snotty. Hope it didn't come across that way. There are some pretty complicated oil/fluid standards out there from the car mfg's with multiple performance aspects to be met but not this one. It is just cold flow at a set temp. Easy to check it out as most oil companies have that data on their sites somewhere.

 

[ProfPS]

What would be your defense if you had an engine failure and the GM dealership claims that the failure was oil related? The owner's manual states to use GM6094M approved motor oils, and Amsoil, RP, & RL are not on their current or past lists.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsibility/environment/maintenance/gm_approved_engine_oils.pdf

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: ProfPS
What would be your defense if you had an engine failure and the GM dealership claims that the failure was oil related? The owner's manual states to use GM6094M approved motor oils, and Amsoil, RP, & RL are not on their current or past lists.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsibility/environment/maintenance/gm_approved_engine_oils.pdf


1 - The manual does not state to use only "approved" GM6094M oils. It states to use an oil that "meets" GM6094M. Big difference. The manual only states to use certified API oils w/ the Starburst( has to be certified to carry it so they mean certified ).

2 - If it was ever questioned my defense would be #1 above( their own statement from the manual about meeting not approved/certified/licensed ), a copy of what the oil standard is, and then the data from RP or whatever brand you wish showing it meets or exceeds the performance requirements of the standard.

 

[hounddog]

Dealers I have been in this past year all offered a whole menu of oils and prices on each.Not just 'bulk'anymore. Its been a while since I was in the business but I have handled HUNDEREDS(if not thousands) of warranty/service contract claims on engine,transmission and differential failures.I was NEVER asked to WHAT brand of lube or weight that was in a unit just the condition f the fliud and if any maintance history etc.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
An oil does not need to be suubmitted for certification to know if it meets or exceeds this oil standard.

As long as the spec is published (which AFAIK not all of them are), this is true.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
An oil does not need to be suubmitted for certification to know if it meets or exceeds this oil standard.

As long as the spec is published (which AFAIK not all of them are), this is true.


You can purchase a copy however as a rule or even write the mfg and ask for a copy. As a rule you can get the standard info someway. I have actually found it harder to get the corresponding test data from the fluid mfg. Sometimes it is data they consider proprietary. In that case I would not consider the fluid for use even if they claimed it met the standard( would only use it if on a mfg approved list in that case ). I want hard data to back up my use of it.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: hounddog
Dealers I have been in this past year all offered a whole menu of oils and prices on each.Not just 'bulk'anymore. Its been a while since I was in the business but I have handled HUNDEREDS(if not thousands) of warranty/service contract claims on engine,transmission and differential failures.I was NEVER asked to WHAT brand of lube or weight that was in a unit just the condition f the fliud and if any maintance history etc.


You are right on 2 things...

1 - dealers do use whatever oil they feel like a lot of times. Everything from top of the line synthetics to cheap bulk stuff without the proper ratings and certifications and many times even the wrong weight. Dealers do not seem to follow the oil requirements the mfg's tell us to a lot of times. You are 100% right. However, if that is the situation you had the work done at the dealer and will have paperwork to back it up. It then falls on them not you. This discussion is more about using oil you buy and chose.

2 - that most times it is not required. The reason being it is obvious why said item failed. If the LSD clutch pack clip on a Dodge Ram 1500 falls out and trashes the rear end, which is a very common issue, it is obvious why it failed. No one is going to question the fluid. A part broke or faiiled and it was not oil related. I have seen it however when neglect was obvious( sludge as one example ), or the level of wear and tear exceeded what you would expect for the mileage, or no reason for the failure could be found( that family member's GM engine I talk of ^^^ ), etc... and at that point it will be looked into.

I will reassert that in today's world it will be done so with a more critical eye due to the poor financial situation of all car mfg's. It is also better to be safe than sorry and not risk what "might" happen.

 

[badnews]

Originally Posted By: DC84
Most likely it will not be a problem. Ive worked for several dealers and none of them ever pressed the issue of what oil was used. Most techs don't care or even have a clue about different oils and dont bother to ask what has been used. Its also rare for any modern engine thats still under warranty to fail due to an oil issue. Dealers bulk oil is usually the cheapest junk they can find and it wouldn't be shocking to find that it doesn't meet GM's requirements either.


+1

I haven't just fallen off of a turnip truck .

And in all my years of vehicles (considerable ) what you have stated is the real world.

Unless the oil falls out in clumps or is otherwise visibly strange the oil will not be a factor ever in a warranty claim. In fact if clean it will never even be a consideration.

A majority of dealers use junk for oil as they feel the profit margin is the number one thing .

 

[NHHEMI]

Alright I dug around and found the GM6094M perfomance requirements I saved from back when I had my Chevy's and looked it up so I could use RP...

GM6094M standard applies to the "maximum allowable low temperature pumping viscosity" of an oil.

Specifically the GM6094M standard is as follows. The oil needs to be at or less than the unit listed( measurement units in "centipoise" = CP )

0W oils = 30,000 CP @ -40 degrees C
5W oils = 40,000 CP @ -35 degrees C
10W oils = 50,000 CP @ -30 degrees C

Just as an example I will use RP 5w30 which claims to meet/exceed the performance aspects of the standard but is not certified. The last time I looked it up( 2006 - I looked just now for most recent data but they still have the tech info off site being updated so??? )RP 5w30 tested as follows

34,800 CP @ -35 degrees C

So it exceeds the GM6094M oil standard performance requirements.

 

[hounddog]

What I meant was the dealers I have been in offered a complete line up of quality oils and prices. One Chrysler store had several flavors of diesel oils/gas engine oils and even filters.All priced different with a explanation of each tier.