API Oil and Warranty

Messages
5,336
Location
London, AR
We have beat to death the subject of using an API oil for warranty. My question is this, has anyone been denied an engine repair because they had a non-API oil in their engine? Not friends, relatives or family, only registered members of this board. Factual info only please. There are over 4500 Registered members on this board, so lets count heads to see first hand who has been denied a warranty for internal engine repair for using a non-API certified oil. [No no] [ July 05, 2004, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
Messages
4,630
Location
Decatur AL USA
Well I asked a question very close to this of the local Ford Dealer: They have denied engine related claims on a oil related basis for two reasons: 1. Lack of Oil 2. Original Oil and Filter Never changed. Gene
 
Messages
2,794
Location
NM
quote:
Originally posted by Gene K: Well I asked a question very close to this of the local Ford Dealer: They have denied engine related claims on a oil related basis for two reasons: 1. Lack of Oil 2. Original Oil and Filter Never changed. Gene
These two are the only conditions for which a dealer may (most likely) deny repairs under warranty. As long as the engine is maintained properly, they won't do much diggin regarding API certification. I bet most mechanics don't know what an oil analysis consists of. JMO
 

Bio-T

Thread starter
Messages
5,336
Location
London, AR
Received this from one of our former members. Remember he is an engineer with two degrees: Tom, I did not ban you from BITOG. It was probably your charming personality that has helped you through life so far. But it is amazing the amount of time that you spend on BITOG, so you can increase your knowledge. Thanks and have a better day, Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Chudzinski" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 1:52 AM Subject: API Oil and Warranty > We have beat to death the subject of using an API oil for warranty. > My question is this, has anyone been denied an engine repair because > they had a non-API oil in their engine? Not friends, relatives or > family, only registered members of this board. Factual info only > please. There are over 4500 Registered members on this board, so > lets count heads to see first hand who has been denied a warranty > for internal engine repair for using a non-API certified oil. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > That's the dumbest question I've ever heard authored by what you > should expect from BITOG. > > I have to say that you, as an administrator at BITOG, have done > everything possible to dumb down the world with regard to oil. > > At this point, you've got, at most, 4500 numbskulls who listen to > you. Unfortunately there are over 125,000,000 others just in the > U.S. who don't. > > Sorry, but many of the non-numbskulls just read their owners > manuals and trust that the engineers who designed and built their > cars knew what they were doing. > > But wait, . . . . I'm sure you know more! > > I can't wait to read what you'll dare to say next! > > Odds are better than 4,500/125,000,000 that your advice will > be ignored! Hang in there Vetteman! If you can figure a way > to drop Americas IQ to below about 80, the traffic/business at > your website is sure to pick up! > > Chumley (banned from posting at your site) >
 
Messages
4,630
Location
Decatur AL USA
quote:
Originally posted by 59 Vetteman: Received this from one of our former members. Remember he is an engineer with two degrees: Tom, I did not ban you from BITOG. It was probably your charming personality that has helped you through life so far. But it is amazing the amount of time that you spend on BITOG, so you can increase your knowledge. Thanks and have a better day, Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Chudzinski" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 1:52 AM Subject: API Oil and Warranty > We have beat to death the subject of using an API oil for warranty. > My question is this, has anyone been denied an engine repair because > they had a non-API oil in their engine? Not friends, relatives or > family, only registered members of this board. Factual info only > please. There are over 4500 Registered members on this board, so > lets count heads to see first hand who has been denied a warranty > for internal engine repair for using a non-API certified oil. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > That's the dumbest question I've ever heard authored by what you > should expect from BITOG. > > I have to say that you, as an administrator at BITOG, have done > everything possible to dumb down the world with regard to oil. > > At this point, you've got, at most, 4500 numbskulls who listen to > you. Unfortunately there are over 125,000,000 others just in the > U.S. who don't. > > Sorry, but many of the non-numbskulls just read their owners > manuals and trust that the engineers who designed and built their > cars knew what they were doing. > > But wait, . . . . I'm sure you know more! > > I can't wait to read what you'll dare to say next! > > Odds are better than 4,500/125,000,000 that your advice will > be ignored! Hang in there Vetteman! If you can figure a way > to drop Americas IQ to below about 80, the traffic/business at > your website is sure to pick up! > > Chumley (banned from posting at your site) >
[Off Topic!] I really dont want to force this off-topic but I do trust Engineering.... I just dont trust Finance and Legal.... Someone is really going to have to go out of their way to prove to me that a 5300 Chevy will last longer on 5W-30 Coastal API SL than on Amsoil 5W-40 "Euro" Non-API on maximum factory drain intervals. Gene
 

Al

Messages
19,256
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by 59 Vetteman: Received this from one of our former members. Remember he is an engineer with two degrees: Tom, I did not ban you from BITOG. It was probably your charming personality that has helped you through life so far. But it is amazing the amount of time that you spend on BITOG, so you can increase your knowledge. Thanks and have a better day, Tony
Is this guy serious [Eek!] [Eek!] does he have a life??? And what's so special about an engineer with two degrees. I am an engineer with two degrees and both of them with $ .90 usually get me a cup of coffee
 
Messages
11,284
Location
Spring HIll
I'm a certified computer engineer with no degrees. There's no substitute for raw data that's interpreted correctly. I've seen shop managers give new engines to customers who haven't changed their oil & filter at the 31K mark. Even ding-bats who work for the car company they bought their vehicle from don't know any better. I wish I could say this guy would be the only denied claim I've physically seen, but he wasn't. So the denied-claim amount I've witnessed is still at zero. And BITOG members are numbskulls??? I don't think so... My contention is that so very few are ever denied claims due to non-API oil. And that coffee is $0.90 here, too. [Cheers!] [ July 07, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]
 

KW

Messages
1,686
Location
Central Arkansas
Wow when I read the question I was thinking "hey this is a pretty good question". Why did Tom have to call me stupid? I really don't like being called stupid. tom (note lower case) is an idiot. tom needs to wake up and see that just because he is educated does not mean he is smart. He (tom) has about as much smarts as a rock. Calling 4500 people stupid sure ain't smart tommy.
 
Messages
11,247
Location
PA
Just a snippet: VW/Porsche/Audi will do a UOA on a sample they believe is suspect in a warranty case. The tricky part is are they looking for oil to be servicable as per their mfg specs, or just "servicable" in general? I have heard of warranty denials based on oil quality, to what standard though? A UOA will not say: API/non API, so how would they know you used Accel SA/SB or even SF unless you told them?
 

KW

Messages
1,686
Location
Central Arkansas
The most I have ever seen happen is proof of oil changes. Ussually receipts for oil changes which would put most of us in a hard spot. I like most of us change my own oil and give the car/bike a once over at the same time.
 
Messages
656
Location
Massachusetts
Well gee, don't feel like a fool. I'm a mechanical/civil engineer for a pump company with only one degree. Let me guess, Tom's other degree is in human relations? I work for a pump manufacture and one of my many responsibilities is to determine the status of warranty claims. Without staunch physical proof of negelect by the owner, the manufacter is legally bound to honor the warranty. But if the owners manual states the maintenance interval and required fluid to be used, and the owner does not maintain the equipment as stated, then the warranty is void. For a car manufacture to do that it would require proof beyond resonable doubt that the oil is not the recommended oil and/or the interval extended beyond their normal service requirements. Both impossible to determine. So if a manufacture denies warranty without physical proof, then all they can do is delay the repair.
 
Messages
243
Location
NY
I use Mobil 1 so i dont ahve to worry. But do dealers really check your oil type if you have some sort of oil related failure?? Cmon, i dont think so. The guys are the dealers just do there job, i have never heard of any problem. My friend brought a 99 GMC sonoma with 19k miles on it to a GMC dealer because oil was flooding all 6 spark plugs and he got a whole new engine, they never checked anything. Seriously, what dealer will check your oil vis. and THEN determin if its a non-aproved API oil?
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,953
Location
Iowegia - USA
How many dealers are going to spend $300 for an advanced oil analysis? None. Better yet, how many dealers even know about advanced oil analysis in order to refute a warranty claim? With the Internet today, dealers and manufacturers can get a bad rap very quickly for denying warranty claims.
 
Messages
9,427
Location
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
quote:
Originally posted by Audi Junkie: Just a snippet: VW/Porsche/Audi will do a UOA on a sample they believe is suspect in a warranty case. The tricky part is are they looking for oil to be servicable as per their mfg specs, or just "servicable" in general? I have heard of warranty denials based on oil quality, to what standard though? A UOA will not say: API/non API, so how would they know you used Accel SA/SB or even SF unless you told them?
AJ: I think what they'll look for on a UOA is one of two things (or both). One or more amounts of components that indicate show that the oil could not possibly meet the called for spec; or grunge so severely built up that the owner must not have changed as required. For example a big excess of P in an oil that's supposed to be an SL or SM oil would be an indicator. At least in the U.S., however, this doesn't get them off the hook. They still have to prove that the improper oil caused the defect the owner is claiming under warranty.
 
Messages
4,630
Location
Decatur AL USA
quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk: They still have to prove that the improper oil caused the defect the owner is claiming under warranty.
Actually they can just refuse to pay for the repair and then it is up to you or your attorney to take them to court and force them to prove the product in question is responsible. In which case a reputable oil company such as Amsoil or Redline should provide you with expert witnesses and documentation to help refute their claims. Dont know that they actually would though. Of course the question here is not what can they do but what have they done. I personally do not know of any cases where engine repairs have been declined because of oil specification or certification. However I would be pretty leary of going outside specification with a manufacture with known problems with their OCI + Oil Quality ie Toyota and Mercedes Benz. I suspect if they saw any signs of lubrication failure on the analysis and the oil did not meet their requirements to the letter you might have a problem. I do know of one case in the early eighties where a engine warranty was declined on a 2.2L Mopar because of the oil filter used. The claim was its oversized capacity without a ABDV increased the time to get oil to the top-end and contributed to Camshaft Failure. However we all know that those early 2.2L Mopars had cam problems regardless and the oil system was eventually modified to increase cam oiling during start-up. Gene [ July 08, 2004, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Gene K ]
 
Messages
233
Location
Midwest
I would not worry about API, just make sure you have records of vicosity and change intervals and you are all set. Also, if you race the car, use it for commercial, taxi or police use, the warranty will probably not apply. At BMW, receipts with change intervals and viscocity listed is all I have ever asked if we encountered a spun bearing while under warranty. It is important to have receipts and not just a piece of paper with dates and mileage written down. Unfortunately, for the consumer, you have to prove you did the required maintenace, not the delaer proving oil was the cause. If the bearing is spun and there is no evidence that the oil pump failed or OBD Codes showing a Low Oil light was lit, you had better have receipts or the warranty will definately be rejected. One thing about new BMW is that the computer will show what RPM, how fast, oil temps, coolant temps and what warning lights were on when the check engine lights came on. This prevents the "knowledable" owner from draining the oil and siezing their engine 5K miles before the 100K extended warranty is up or the person the races their M3 to the ground and blows an engine.
 
Top