TooSlick
Thanks. I'll try both in my kart when my ribs heal.
Thanks. I'll try both in my kart when my ribs heal.
Two Stroke Premix
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MolaKule
Staff member
I used the Schaeffer's TC-WXX (can't recall their part number) 2-cycle mix this weekend and ran it four hours in the two Poulan chain saws on elm and oak logs 8" to 18" in diameter.
It is thinner than the Amsoil 2-cycle racing oil but as a blend, it works very well. It has a very dark purple color. I mixed in a 40:1 ratio.
Here are some things I noticed:
1. After about 1/2 hour of operation, both chain saws ran faster and the idle had to be adjusted down about 20%. I assume engines had finally plated up with moly/antimony after about 30 minutes.
2. No smoky emissions.
3. RPM's stayed up even when going through some tough elm.
4. Engines ran cooler. I wish I had brought my IR temp gage to determine temp deltas.
It is thinner than the Amsoil 2-cycle racing oil but as a blend, it works very well. It has a very dark purple color. I mixed in a 40:1 ratio.
Here are some things I noticed:
1. After about 1/2 hour of operation, both chain saws ran faster and the idle had to be adjusted down about 20%. I assume engines had finally plated up with moly/antimony after about 30 minutes.
2. No smoky emissions.
3. RPM's stayed up even when going through some tough elm.
4. Engines ran cooler. I wish I had brought my IR temp gage to determine temp deltas.
MolaKule
Staff member
Someone asked about solvent percentages in petro TC's and blends.
The solvent is ususally "heavy alkylate naphtha" or equivalent and is usually about 20% by weight of the mixture.
Some blenders replace the brightstock (heavy petroleum distillate) with PAO's.
Poulan uses polyisobutelene in place of brightstocks with about 10% solvent.
The solvent is ususally "heavy alkylate naphtha" or equivalent and is usually about 20% by weight of the mixture.
Some blenders replace the brightstock (heavy petroleum distillate) with PAO's.
Poulan uses polyisobutelene in place of brightstocks with about 10% solvent.
MolaKule,
I have a case of the Schaeffer's 7000 #706 and it is a blend and it is Green in color not purple.
The Schaeffer's Micron Moly #109 is not a blend and I don't know what color it is.
Would you do me a favor and check your bottle as I am lost on this. Either I have an older/newer formulation than you do if you have the #706.
This is not a problem, I am only curious. If you have the Micron Moly #109 you are getting super results with out a blend. If it is the #706, your results are the same but with the blend. Thanks for your help in this matter as my curiousity is getting me.
I have a case of the Schaeffer's 7000 #706 and it is a blend and it is Green in color not purple.
The Schaeffer's Micron Moly #109 is not a blend and I don't know what color it is.
Would you do me a favor and check your bottle as I am lost on this. Either I have an older/newer formulation than you do if you have the #706.
This is not a problem, I am only curious. If you have the Micron Moly #109 you are getting super results with out a blend. If it is the #706, your results are the same but with the blend. Thanks for your help in this matter as my curiousity is getting me.
MolaKule
Staff member
What I have are qt. bottles of #706 (Moly Supreme 2-Cycle), very dark purple and somewhat thinner than the Poulan Chain Saw oil (which is just slightly thinner than the
Amsoil 2-Cycle Racing Oil).
Burns darn good, no smoke at 35-40:1 ratios. Chain Saw runs better, me like! Jane thinks me nuts!
Amsoil 2-Cycle Racing Oil).
Burns darn good, no smoke at 35-40:1 ratios. Chain Saw runs better, me like! Jane thinks me nuts!
MolaKule
Staff member
And yes, according to the Spec Sheets, the #706 is a blend:
Polyalphaolefin Synthetic Base Fluid - CAS#68037-01-4 9-11%
Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate - Specific chemical identity withheld (trade secret)
Heavy Alkylate Naphtha - CAS#64741-65-7 20-22%
100% Paraffin Base Oils - CAS#64742-57-0, CAS#64742-62-7, CAS#64742-54-7, CAS#64741-88-4 57-59%
Polyalphaolefin Synthetic Base Fluid - CAS#68037-01-4 9-11%
Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate - Specific chemical identity withheld (trade secret)
Heavy Alkylate Naphtha - CAS#64741-65-7 20-22%
100% Paraffin Base Oils - CAS#64742-57-0, CAS#64742-62-7, CAS#64742-54-7, CAS#64741-88-4 57-59%
MolaKule,
Thanks for the reply. Both of us got the oil from 2 different batches then, mine is definetly green just like the car oil. No big deal, I only hope they didn't change the formulation. Thanks again.
Thanks for the reply. Both of us got the oil from 2 different batches then, mine is definetly green just like the car oil. No big deal, I only hope they didn't change the formulation. Thanks again.
MolaKule
Staff member
That's interesting, since mine is as purple as a plum's skin. I know most of Scaheffer's products have that blue/green dye which appears green or dark green in most products. Maybe the dye supplier got more blue than green that day.
I was working up a formualtion for a team one time and sepcified a particular color of dye
so we could identify our formulation from others. The racers called me and ask what the h...l was going on, and why did I send them transmission fluid for the engine on the morning of the race. I went to the track and verified the oil was our formulation, it just had red dye put in it by mistake. In fact, the dye was supposed to be blaze-orange, but somehow the dye supplier put more red than orange in mix. Anyway, they finished third with what they called the "Red Madness" mix.
I was working up a formualtion for a team one time and sepcified a particular color of dye
so we could identify our formulation from others. The racers called me and ask what the h...l was going on, and why did I send them transmission fluid for the engine on the morning of the race. I went to the track and verified the oil was our formulation, it just had red dye put in it by mistake. In fact, the dye was supposed to be blaze-orange, but somehow the dye supplier put more red than orange in mix. Anyway, they finished third with what they called the "Red Madness" mix.
How long can you leave 2-cycle oil laying around before it goes bad?
I have some old Poulan 2 cycle oil that has to be 20+ years old. It is in the small cans that, when mixed with 1 gallon of gas, makes a 16:1 2-cycle fuel. The tops are the cans are covered with a fine coating of dust and rust but the bottoms look fine. I have 2 4-packs with their original plastic strapping and a handful of loose cans.
I opened a can of this stuff and it looks perfectly fine. Thick, a deep green color and crystal clear - not hazy, foggy or otherwise murky.
I also have some old TC-W Quicksilver outboard lube (7 tall cans) and a 2/3 of a gallon of Kawasaki TC-W marine engine oil for a jet ski we had several years ago but have since sold. This is in addition to a dozen cans of newer John Deere TC-W2 2-cycle oil and some brand new bottles of Stihl.
Our current 2-cycle oil needs require about 1 gallon of fuel per year. In other words, with a few gallons of oil combined, we are drastically over-loaded with this stuff!
I hate to waste anything so I'm thinking of running some of this mixed with gasoline in a roughly 200:1 (or leaner) ratio in other, 4-stroke power equipment we have ... just to use it up. Only in stuff with carburetors, nothing with fuel injection. I'm figuring this will provide a little benign top-cylinder lubrication in addition to getting rid of all that excess oil. Any potential problems with doing this?
--- Bror Jace
I have some old Poulan 2 cycle oil that has to be 20+ years old. It is in the small cans that, when mixed with 1 gallon of gas, makes a 16:1 2-cycle fuel. The tops are the cans are covered with a fine coating of dust and rust but the bottoms look fine. I have 2 4-packs with their original plastic strapping and a handful of loose cans.
I opened a can of this stuff and it looks perfectly fine. Thick, a deep green color and crystal clear - not hazy, foggy or otherwise murky.
I also have some old TC-W Quicksilver outboard lube (7 tall cans) and a 2/3 of a gallon of Kawasaki TC-W marine engine oil for a jet ski we had several years ago but have since sold. This is in addition to a dozen cans of newer John Deere TC-W2 2-cycle oil and some brand new bottles of Stihl.
Our current 2-cycle oil needs require about 1 gallon of fuel per year. In other words, with a few gallons of oil combined, we are drastically over-loaded with this stuff!
I hate to waste anything so I'm thinking of running some of this mixed with gasoline in a roughly 200:1 (or leaner) ratio in other, 4-stroke power equipment we have ... just to use it up. Only in stuff with carburetors, nothing with fuel injection. I'm figuring this will provide a little benign top-cylinder lubrication in addition to getting rid of all that excess oil. Any potential problems with doing this?
--- Bror Jace
You may get quite a bit of extra carbon buildup.
Bror, I hear you. I still have bottled garage products from 20yrs ago. Lately though I pitch/recycle any that creep out of their hiding places. Especially fuel things. Over the years I've spent too much time tearing apart fuel systems & buying expensive little parts after using an old $2 bottle that's still sporting gills. It isn't worth the hours. I still use old bottled oil in our mowers but they seem dumb & happy about it. With fuel product though, IMO buy no more than needed for the season and start fresh next.
David
Thanks guys. The next batch of fuel I mix up will be using the newest (Stihl) 2-cycle oil.
But I still think I'm gonna use up some of the oldest oil in my 4-stroke equipment ... but at REALLY lean mixtures like 200:1 or more. Should act like Marvel Mystery Oil.
As for carbon build-up, I'll watch for it. The equipment I have runs awfully clean and that's never been an issue to date.
Everything I run gets regular doses of Red Line fuel system cleaner, Neutra 131 and/or isopropyl alcohol to keep things clean and dry.
--- Bror Jace
But I still think I'm gonna use up some of the oldest oil in my 4-stroke equipment ... but at REALLY lean mixtures like 200:1 or more. Should act like Marvel Mystery Oil.
As for carbon build-up, I'll watch for it. The equipment I have runs awfully clean and that's never been an issue to date.
Everything I run gets regular doses of Red Line fuel system cleaner, Neutra 131 and/or isopropyl alcohol to keep things clean and dry.
--- Bror Jace
From 5 years of racing personal watercraft, I can say that the most popular oils with racers are Maxima (927 Castor Oil, Super-M, Formula K2 Synthetic), Yamalube R, Torco, Redline, and Amsoil. Most of the top pro's run the Maxima. Even though it's an older formula, some racers swear their engines will only stay together on 927, it seems to be tough stuff. I'd love to hear what the experts think about maxima. I will say this, you can't beat the smell of castor927 and race gas burning across the water in the morning!!!!!! So sweet.
Maxima makes good stuff. 927 is really scuff resistant, but burns very dirty due to it being a castor oil.
The 927 is a racing oil only, as labeled. According to maxima, it really requires a high amount of heat and compression to turn it into a 'soft carbon', keeping the exhaust manifold and pipe clean. Lots of people used to try to run 927 in their go-peds and ended up with the engines dying due to the exhaust being completely clogged shut. This is NOT a weedwacker oil =] If you do have a really high performance modified racing engine, this or K2 is the stuff. K2 is probably a bit better overall, but the 927 just smells so good.
927 is very dirty in any engine. I have some pics a a stihl hotsaw ran on the stuff(email me if you would like to see them). What a mess, very heavy deposits.
K2 is head and shoulders better. It burns very clean.
[ November 30, 2002, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: ben walker ]
K2 is head and shoulders better. It burns very clean.
[ November 30, 2002, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: ben walker ]
After running in with Shell M castor last weekend I'll be switching to Redline Kart/Racing/Militec-1 mix this weekend for my 1st race meeting. Will see how it goes.
s
s
Hey sprintman, are you gonna tear the head off that motor of yours before you switch brands of oil? Any more drastic measures? I don’t know how often karting engines typically go between overhauls. I suppose it has something to do with how competitive you want to be.
I’m sure we’d all like as much info on your little experiment as you can give.
I’m afraid to ask what you pay for Red Line’s Karting oil on your continent.
--- Bror Jace
I’m sure we’d all like as much info on your little experiment as you can give.
I’m afraid to ask what you pay for Red Line’s Karting oil on your continent.
--- Bror Jace
Ok here is my $.02.
I have been running Amsoils 100:1 mix in my Chain saw since new back in 96 when hurricane Fran hit. Been running it in my Craftsman Leaf blower since new in 94, on average I go through about 4 gallons to clean up this yard in the fall and that is running full throttle. I also use it in my off brand Itacsa weed wacker for the past 6 years. I never drain the fuel. I just use each from year to year and top it off when needed. I have yet to change any of my spark plugs. But I did take the one out of my Chain saw the other day to see what it was like. Nice coco brown no build up. It is a little mity Mac beaver saw. I use my stuff for what it is intended and would say I push it harder than most.
I'm very satisfied with Amsoil. I even ran it in my Yamaha Super Jet PWC at 100:1 with no problems. Lets face it, if it takes an oil you can be sure I have Amsoil in it. Maybe I should change out my plugs, but why? Not like I can't go right next door and get a new one from the parts store. (the advantages to living next to one
)Now my vehicles are a little different in that respect.
OK just my $.02.
I have been running Amsoils 100:1 mix in my Chain saw since new back in 96 when hurricane Fran hit. Been running it in my Craftsman Leaf blower since new in 94, on average I go through about 4 gallons to clean up this yard in the fall and that is running full throttle. I also use it in my off brand Itacsa weed wacker for the past 6 years. I never drain the fuel. I just use each from year to year and top it off when needed. I have yet to change any of my spark plugs. But I did take the one out of my Chain saw the other day to see what it was like. Nice coco brown no build up. It is a little mity Mac beaver saw. I use my stuff for what it is intended and would say I push it harder than most.
I'm very satisfied with Amsoil. I even ran it in my Yamaha Super Jet PWC at 100:1 with no problems. Lets face it, if it takes an oil you can be sure I have Amsoil in it. Maybe I should change out my plugs, but why? Not like I can't go right next door and get a new one from the parts store. (the advantages to living next to one
OK just my $.02.
Rat, that's fairly impressive. When it comes to 2-stroke oils, I don't think getting one to run clean is terribly difficult. BUT running clean and exceptional long-term durability (especially at lean ratios) is a feat.
Molakule: "Poulan uses polyisobutelene in place of brightstocks with about 10% solvent."
Which Poulan formula is that? The synthetic 2-stroke stuff for $3 per pint at Wally World? You said this was being used to compete with esters used by Red Line, Amsoil, Synergen (probably) and others. Does any other company use this kind of formula as well?
--- Bror Jace
Molakule: "Poulan uses polyisobutelene in place of brightstocks with about 10% solvent."
Which Poulan formula is that? The synthetic 2-stroke stuff for $3 per pint at Wally World? You said this was being used to compete with esters used by Red Line, Amsoil, Synergen (probably) and others. Does any other company use this kind of formula as well?
--- Bror Jace
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