Turbo proliferation

[wemay]

Recently it seems that a great majority of automakers have moved towards small displacement Turbo engines. In the past, it was almost gospel that a synthetic oil be used to protect these engines. Now, for various reasons, Dexos1 (blends) and even conventionals are used at the dealer for these vehicles. I know the (lubrication, turbo cooling) technology has advanced but has it really advanced that much that blends and even conventionals can be trusted to deliver 200,000 miles in that family daily driver, maintained at the dealership or by 'dad' following his Owners Manual?

 

[d00df00d]

Good question. Unfortunately, there's only one way to find out...

 

[sciphi]

They're generally pretty abuse-resistant. On the very conservative factory tunes, the engines can run factory-specified oil change intervals with factory-specified oils and make it through warranty.

If you want your turbo to last longer than warranty, a known way of doing that is by using a Grp. III or better oil changed at reasonable intervals.

 

[Corvette Owner]

The turbos used today are to provide better gas mileage with small displacement engines and passing/power when necessary. They are not used as high performance car engines. The owners won't push these cars like a performance car owner would.

Having said that, turbos usually do not have the life expectancy of a non-blown car engine.

Also, I think the synthetic blends, with current additives, are much better than they used to be.

Bottomline, we will probably need to wait and see how these new turbo engines hold up in the real world.

 

[pbm]

Saab, Volvo and VW have been making turbo engines for years and they seem to last as well as non-blown engines.
I think I read that GM used Saab acquired knowledge when they engineered the Cruze turbo.
I plan on using only synthetic and changing it at no more than 6K (despite the OLM saying it can go longer).
Hopefully it will last a long time.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: wemay
I know the (lubrication, turbo cooling) technology has advanced but has it really advanced that much that blends and even conventionals can be trusted to deliver 200,000 miles in that family daily driver, maintained at the dealership or by 'dad' following his Owners Manual?

Even years ago, conventionals could be used in turbos without any issues, depending upon driving conditions and design, of course. My old Audi had no problems with conventional, despite the turbocharging, since sump temperatures never exceeded 95 C. Plenty of agricultural and OTR turbodiesels have used conventional over the years.

Of course, one would have to exhibit caution in these applications. One did not want to shut down the engines too quickly in the case of the agricultural equipment. The old Audi had overly optimistic OCIs, at 12,500 km for severe service.

 

[Corvette Owner]

The 1997 Chevy Corvette was the first engine that GM designed to last 200,000 miles. Most cars engines are designed to last 100,000 miles, although many will last much longer. Note that this was also the first GM car to require synthetic oil.

GM use to require newly designed engines to run for 10 hours at wide open throttle and full load, The Corvette was run for more than 25 days at wide open throttle and full load.

 

[mene]

Originally Posted By: pbm
Saab, Volvo and VW have been making turbo engines for years and they seem to last as well as non-blown engines.
I think I read that GM used Saab acquired knowledge when they engineered the Cruze turbo.
I plan on using only synthetic and changing it at no more than 6K (despite the OLM saying it can go longer).
Hopefully it will last a long time.


You forgot our own USA's Chrysler have been producing turbo cars and minivans since the early '80s, and with very few exceptions the bodies rust away and the engines keep on boosting.

 

[sprite1741]

My 86 Dodge Lancer turbo is still going strong. Never seen any synthetic oil in 28 years. I use the cheapest stuff out there. Right now I have a Microguard ecore filter on it with Peak brand oil from O'reillys. I remember when turbo approved oils came out in the 80's. Just marketing hype.

 

[Hyde244]

Considering turbo-specced OEM recommended oils are indeed synthetic blends (Motorcraft, Dexos1, etc.) - yes.

 

[double vanos]

I think it is a matter of motor oil, whether conventional or synthetic, has gotten that good. GF5 / SN class oils are pretty stout. PYB comes to mind right off the bat....

 

[Kuato]

Small displacement for mpg, turbo for better power when you need it. Have been available in Europe for many years. A friend of mine had an 80s Saab 2.0 turbo 4, owner's manual said to idle 30 seconds before shutting down, which he did. He never used synthetic and the turbo was trouble free until he wrecked it on black ice.

As I understand it, today's engines automatically continue to circulate oil after shutdown to protect the turbo.




Originally Posted By: sprite1741
My 86 Dodge Lancer turbo is still going strong. Never seen any synthetic oil in 28 years. I use the cheapest stuff out there. Right now I have a Microguard ecore filter on it with Peak brand oil from O'reillys. I remember when turbo approved oils came out in the 80's. Just marketing hype.


2.2? That and the 2.5 were/are bulletproof, and could produce a LOT of power when modified. Couple of videos on Youtube where an old minivan with turbo just spanks a couple of high performance cars.

 

[nobb]

Originally Posted By: Kuato

As I understand it, today's engines automatically continue to circulate oil after shutdown to protect the turbo.


Is that correct? I'm pretty sure most OEM turbos do not have any sort of turbo timer. I think modern turbos are more durable due to:
1. Water cooled and not just oil cooled. Technically does not require a cool-down period.
2. Boost is limited until engine has warmed up. For example, if you cold start and do a WOT, I don't think the turbo will fully spool up the same as when the engine has warmed up.

 

[T-Bone]

I suspect that most modern turbos are now water-cooled, compared to the oil-cooled ones in the 1980s and early 1990s.

I remember a lot of folks had to idle their cars awhile before shutting down to prevent "coking up" of their turbos. When the engine was shut down, the hot spinning turbo overheated the oil remaining in the bearing.

My speculation is that modern water-cooled turbos have much more thermal mass and are much easier on their oil.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
The 1997 Chevy Corvette was the first engine that GM designed to last 200,000 miles. Most cars engines are designed to last 100,000 miles, although many will last much longer. Note that this was also the first GM car to require synthetic oil.

GM use to require newly designed engines to run for 10 hours at wide open throttle and full load, The Corvette was run for more than 25 days at wide open throttle and full load.



If you're going to post this type of comment you've gotta back it up with some kind of evidence.
I think it's an absurd idea to be honest so please post some evidence.

K guys. Diesel trucks have turbos so big they'll suck small birds in and those turbos last a million miles using plain jane conventional hdeo oils so to just assume syn is required is laughable.
Honda had a spec for their specific turbos but they wanted a thinner version to improve fuel economy over a 15w-40 for example.
And as a rule it's a good idea to let a turbo run at idle to wash out the heat from driving as a preventative measure to insure the turbo didn't coke up however today's oem turbos are also water cooled which makes cooling far more efficient and more user friendly.

 

[SteveSRT8]

real durability testing, note that turbos are being tested!

http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-powertrain-development-teams-ensure-durability-by-beating-the-[censored]-out-of-engines

Some folks have some funny ideas...

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
As I understand it, today's engines automatically continue to circulate oil after shutdown to protect the turbo.


You'd have to have an electric oil pump on a timer to do that. Any cars out there with electric oil pumps?

 

[bvl]

Some have gravity systems where coolant flows around the snail post shut down. I'm not aware of oil pumps in common cars.

Few people run their turbo super hot then just shut the car down. In the course of extreme driving you may be running 100 MPH on the highway but you get off an exit, putter into your neighborhood through a few stop signs, then pull in. This cools allows for cooling on its own.

3-5K mile conventional changes are fine. Many of us turbo owners prefer longer OCIs and are synthetic (and BITOG) geeks, but we still represent a very small amount of the population

- b

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
real durability testing, note that turbos are being tested!

http://blog.caranddriver.com/how-powertrain-development-teams-ensure-durability-by-beating-the-[censored]-out-of-engines

Some folks have some funny ideas...


...and not just turbocharged but direct injection as well! Excellent post, thanks.

 

[VNTS]

All Chrysler Turbos from intro in 1984 Daytona Turbos were always water cooled center sections.

What kills the turbos is running dino, the oil entering the bearings brakes down, carbons up the small oil feed holes, slowly restricts the supply to the bearings until failure.

I always run synthetic, to eliminate that issue.







Originally Posted By: T-Bone
I suspect that most modern turbos are now water-cooled, compared to the oil-cooled ones in the 1980s and early 1990s.

I remember a lot of folks had to idle their cars awhile before shutting down to prevent "coking up" of their turbos. When the engine was shut down, the hot spinning turbo overheated the oil remaining in the bearing.

My speculation is that modern water-cooled turbos have much more thermal mass and are much easier on their oil.