Until you have to deal with their dust and eating rotors. I had them and love them except for the dust (even on steel wheels!!!!) and rotor chew.The EBC Ultimax2 is a great daily driver pad
Trying to narrow down brake pad selection, but getting mixed signals.
- Thread starter Dborch41
- Start date
I use ATE SL.6 or Bosch ESI6 in Japanese cars all the time. They’re chemically similar to OEM Japanese fluid but brake fluid doesn’t affect pedal feel(if everything is bled right and the base brake system - calipers/wheel cylinders and master cylinder are in working order, if you have drum brakes those also need to be adjusted properly). The only brake system part that cares about viscosity is the ABS/ESP modulator. IIRC, DOT 3/4 is a 1500mm2/second fluid, DOT 5.1 is <1000mm2/second, DOT4LV is <700mm2/second. To the foot, it’s nothing. To a computer, it’s something.
Trust me, I bled those systems to the point of crying. Friend on pedal, pressure bleeder, vacuum bleeder, into a container with fluid to prevent air pull back.
It's just how it felt with DOT 4 vs DOT3/5.1. DOT4 felt heavier. Might be overly light car, might be tuning, might be the lack of vac at idle, but there was no ABS on that car.
DOT3 is thinner than 4, that's why 4LV is a thing. The faster the ABS pump the faster you need that fluid to shift in the line. Though one downside to 4LV is it shares DOT3's flush frequency, while 5.1 and 4(non-race stuff) share the extended life.
Apparently racer folk who pay a lot of money swear they can feel the density differences between fluids, though they'll run DOT 4 that's extremely hydrophillic, and require complete flushes more often than not.
So to me, 5.1 is a better fit for me. It works in everything I have, is better specced than any DOT4 I can buy that isn't more expensive and noticably so.
It's just how it felt with DOT 4 vs DOT3/5.1. DOT4 felt heavier. Might be overly light car, might be tuning, might be the lack of vac at idle, but there was no ABS on that car.
DOT3 is thinner than 4, that's why 4LV is a thing. The faster the ABS pump the faster you need that fluid to shift in the line. Though one downside to 4LV is it shares DOT3's flush frequency, while 5.1 and 4(non-race stuff) share the extended life.
Apparently racer folk who pay a lot of money swear they can feel the density differences between fluids, though they'll run DOT 4 that's extremely hydrophillic, and require complete flushes more often than not.
So to me, 5.1 is a better fit for me. It works in everything I have, is better specced than any DOT4 I can buy that isn't more expensive and noticably so.
DOT3 is thicker than DOT4LV and the newest “super” DOT5.1(ATE 5.1 and Bosch ESI6). What the DOT numbers usually mean is wet/dry boiling point and fluid base. DOT3/4/4LV/5.1 are all glycol ether based fluids. DOT5 is silicone, used in the military(or was) and in older Harleys. And then you have RR363 fluid for older Rolls-Royce/Bentley and HSMO, also used by Rolls-Royce, Jaguar and Shimano currently uses HSMO fluid for their bike disc brakes.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/brake-...MI_fGTlIGlkQMVCBOtBh1ZBy8uEAMYAyAAEgKgEPD_BwE
https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/brake-...MI_fGTlIGlkQMVCBOtBh1ZBy8uEAMYAyAAEgKgEPD_BwE
Any reason not to run DOT 5.1? I’m going to bleed brakes on the Tempest when it comes out of winter storage. Also, time to clean front discs. Thinking of going ceramic or semi-metallic. Current pads came with conversion kit and dust has not been an issue but maybe I can’t leave anything alone. This whole thread has been enlightening.
I don’t see why not if the price is right.
Bosch 3/4/5.1 $10 or so at RA for a quart if I buy with other stuff I need.
Easy. Amazon has it on Prime as well, paid $15 for a liter.
Exactly. Soft pedals are caused by hydraulic issues. You can have a firm brake pedal, but the car stops poorly. The latter is a pad/rotor issue.
Or an assist issue of course, ie not-power brakes
Soon no one will remember when "pb" was an option.....I think you’re just dealing with an odd Nissan issue. I have 3 Nissans and every one hits different with the brakes. My 21 Altima will set off the airbags, my 24 Altima is normal and my 18 rogue takes some effort. Nothing outside of ebc pads and rotors has very changed the rogue. New fluid, old fluid, bled till I eventually gave up. I drove a 25 rogue as a rental and it was the same. Not dangerous in any way, just more effort. Ebc will change things but I got tired of the awful crud that goes way beyond dust that they create. You can literally pull the pads after they break in and chisel out the center slot cause it’s full. If ebc could figure out the sludge and keep the bite, I’d use them again. I’m running advics pads and they’re spotless yet lack the ebc bite and it’s not even close.
Centric semi metallics. Slap a set on. I used to have issues with what i thought was warping…..it was ceramic pads depositing material on the rotor face. Was in a pinch and I threw a set of 15$ metallics on one day to buy sometime till i could service it properly. My brake “warp” went away in 300 miles. Eventually did front and rear rotors and semi metallic pads. It was better than ever.
—Wagner thermo quiets were no bueno for me. Power stop were not great either. Both wagners and power stop were noisy and wore quickly ymmv.
—Wagner thermo quiets were no bueno for me. Power stop were not great either. Both wagners and power stop were noisy and wore quickly ymmv.
I am a long time user of PowerStop I like em don’t get me wrong what I don’t like is even though they match the friction coefficient of the factory pads on my vehicle they do their own thing with friction materials not matching the OE friction material. As in ceramic-semi metallic-hybrid powerstop is ceramic with fillers or carbon ceramic plus fillers. My next pad purchase I’m venturing out to a pad manufacturer that labels OE specific friction material. I did once use BOSCH Blues for rears with O’Reilly rotors and had nice results.
The only way you will get OE specific friction material is from the dealer, unless you have a Euro car
Even Akebono's aftermarket pads are not the same as OE even when Akebono is the OE supplier. However, there is nothing wrong with aftermarket Akebono pads.
EBC isn't an OE supplier, but the EBC Ultimax2 pads (Blackstuff) are awesome and the best daily driver pads I have come across.
Most brake pads changed their formulas recently to remove copper, as it is being banned in brake pads.
You sound like you know your brakes there, have you used TRW or ADVICS also what do you think about DFC they're fairly new to the the aftermarket (I think?) Dynamic Friction Company they're 4000 series Hybrid pads seem interesting along with their ceramic 5000's. I hate to be one of those content readers cause a company has phenomenal marketing but the parts ain't worth a stinky tuna can.The only way you will get OE specific friction material is from the dealer, unless you have a Euro car
Even Akebono's aftermarket pads are not the same as OE even when Akebono is the OE supplier. However, there is nothing wrong with aftermarket Akebono pads.
EBC isn't an OE supplier, but the EBC Ultimax2 pads (Blackstuff) are awesome and the best daily driver pads I have come across.
Most brake pads changed their formulas recently to remove copper, as it is being banned in brake pads.
I haven't used TRW or Advics pads, but either should serve you well. I mostly use EBC Blackstuff and Akebono pads.
The DFC pads should be ok. I would guess they're most likely similar to Powerstop in the range they offer
If you buy them from Rock Auto, just get whatever pads ship from the same warehouse as the coated rotors you select
What kind of car do you have?
Nissan Rogue 2nd Gen 14-20. I watch DFC's YouTube channel they're founder and marketing guru talk a lot about how their company image is to provide OE matched friction material to each particular vehicle.I haven't used TRW or Advics pads, but either should serve you well. I mostly use EBC Blackstuff and Akebono pads.
The DFC pads should be ok. I would guess they're most likely similar to Powerstop in the range they offer
If you buy them from Rock Auto, just get whatever pads ship from the same warehouse as the coated rotors you select
What kind of car do you have?
They make many different pads. The DFC 5000 series claims to be the OE match. It might be worth trying if it's a good price. Other good options include Akebono, Advics, and Bosch Quietcast.
Rock Auto has DFC pad and rotor kits that include the coated rotors and 5000 series pads
I have around 10,000 miles on the PowerStop OE kit with Z17 pads front and rear I am considering just doing a pad slap on the front the rotors are in pristine condition. For now I would just leave the rears with the Z17 pads. I could scotch brite the front rotors make them more friendly to accept new friction material re-lube the sliders clean things up and drive on. The Z17s have been super easy on the rotors.They make many different pads. The DFC 5000 series claims to be the OE match. It might be worth trying if it's a good price. Other good options include Akebono, Advics, and Bosch Quietcast.
Rock Auto has DFC pad and rotor kits that include the coated rotors and 5000 series pads
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