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Triax Synergy 0w30 SN+
- Thread starter The_Captain
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At least 10-15 threads on Triax products here, some long and detailed. Easy to search for too considering the name.
Might find your answer here:
Thanks for sharing. The TBN is a bit low, but it's not everything.
I agree. Although I don't know if that 6.5 result is D4739 or D2896. I'd expect a "long drain" fluid to have a TBN of 7.5-8.0 using the D4739 method.
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2012
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- 312
I guess I should have included more information in my original post. I seen this oil on Amazon. It was less than 7 bucks and had prime free shipping. I have several NAPA oil analysis kits so I sent it in for the group. I did read several of the post about Triax on this forum. The claims and verbiage on the bottle seemed very impressive but not believable. 15k oil change intervals and two years between oil changes, etc......I posted it for discussion especially for the claims made and see if anyone had personal experience with Triax products. A TBN of 6.5 doesn’t sound like a 15k OCI oil to me and the moly content was not that impressive. I am sure they have some G14 classified proprietary ingredients but I doubt they would change many opinions about this oil.
Can't tell a lot from an add pack other than it looks appropriate. That's an awful lot of silicon for virgin oil though.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
Thanks for using your lab kit for us!! I have used their 5w-30 in the past. Tried getting (2) 5 gallon from Amazon, but they damaged them in shipment so was refunded. Got two from eBay for less $. But their site shows about everything out of stock, kinda disturbing. Triax Lubes has a member on here, who posted 3 times. One post was replying to someone who said they were liquidating all their stock. He (or she) denied any liquidation, etc. etc. Last appearance on here was in 2018. Most of the threads on here were from 2017-2018. Maybe they are gone?
Most of the threads
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
PQIA doesn't have any listings for Triax at all. At least not under PCMOMight find your answer here:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Looks like a pretty vanilla API/ILSAC formula (despite the wild claims in the bottle). Also have an issue with the listing of obsolete oil specs, like the ancient GM ones, listed under specifications.
If you look at the Pennzoil SRT 0w-40 VOA (SN):
Pennzoil SRT 0w40
Auto Zone clearanced this oil at $2 a bottle. Myself, I have enough of it to change oil for 3 years now. Here is a virgin sample that might help people.
bobistheoilguy.com
You'll see this looks similar with the exception of the reduced Calcium, replaced with Magnesium, to aide in LSPI avoidance as part of SN Plus.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
Another point is the difference between 40c viscosity in 0w-30 and 5w-30 in minimal, but the price is a lot higher for the 0w-30. Amsoil's SSO has about the same vis difference, but they are all priced the same (expensive). Their additive pack is pretty close to Triax, but Triax has more magnesium. Silicon is a little high, as KC pointed out, I wonder if they're using re-refined base stock? TBN is low, as mentioned, but I'm not a fan of long drains anyway.
Triax's marketing sucks, they tried twice to spell molybdenum and got it wrong both times, lol. But if the product is good, does that really matter?
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
That report is from 2013. Moly is pretty hefty, it's an expensive additive, that's what's impressive about Triax, in my opinion.
Triax seems to be the only one with high levels of magnesium, too. So that would replace Calcium, and show a lower TBN in tests? I remember RLI used antimony as an AW additive, they are/were the only ones to use that I think.
I think the wild claims come from the increased AW additives. The 2 years/25K I take with a grain of salt. Maybe they expect the magnesium to be super basic? LOL
How would you determine that?
And it’s not just the misspellings, it’s the claiming on certain products of meeting or “suitable for” manufacturer approvals that are inherently incompatible.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
GM Dexos1 Gen2 oils I've seen have around 80ppm of Molybdenum, Triax and Amsoil oils have over 200. Is this why it's not Dexos licensed?
Probably because they did not spend to have it tested/licensed to meet dexos.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Dimer moly always had a higher treat rate, and yes, the 0w-40 report is old, just pointing out the metallic additive similarities.
SN Plus and now SP will show higher magnesium and reduced calcium. This is part of the LSPI mitigation strategy that was implemented as part of SN Plus. This additive package looks pretty cookie cutter in that respect.
With trimer moly, the treat rate can be lower for the same effectiveness, which is what you'll see in more of the premium lubes like Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Ultra products which are likely using other organic FM chemistries (like borated compounds, which XOM is a big proponent of based on @MolaKule's comments in another thread) that overlap into the AW areas as well and don't show up in VOA's/UOA's. Other brands use alternative FM compounds like titanium (I'm sure you recall the Castrol marketing of liquid titanium) and tungsten (what Ravenol appears to like).
That said, moly is an excellent FM, and highly effective, which is why it is so common. But treat rate isn't a direct tell here, because, as I noted, there are other factors in play.
I don't see anything remarkable about the product, but it does look quite serviceable. My only concerns are the listing of obsolete specs and the wild marketing claims. I suspect they've bought an already approved SN Plus additive package from Lubrizol or Afton and blended it with a compatible base oil blend. Nothing wrong with that BTW.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
In this Reddit post the end of the OP's post has a quote from an email from Triax:
The above you have to expand the original post using the arrows on the left
Here is an explanation from Andrew P., who I presume is with Triax:
https://www.reddit.com/user/Triaxlubricants/
He seems to avoid the cookie cutter formulas.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
You mean this quote? My responses to its segments below.
I'd put an emphasis on "SOME" there. The product in this thread is indeed API approved and does indeed look like an additive package bought from Lubrizol, Infineum, Afton...etc.
That's incorrect in many respects.
The use of esters don't preclude a company from using an API approved additive package, the API has a base oil interchange guide and you can do a read-across with it to see what base oils can be swapped out. Depending on what is swapped, and the concentration, some additional testing may be required. Document can be found here:
The API doesn't limit moly or boron. SN Plus and SP have a limit on Calcium now for LSPI mitigation. If you are producing an xW-16, 20, 30, phosphorous is capped at 800ppm, but this doesn't apply to an xW-40.
And therein lies the rub. Yes, you can buy a pre-approved additive package, and use it with any base oils it is approved with, or can be interchanged with as per the guide and produce an approved product (like the one this thread is about). However, you can't change the concentrations of the additives because that changes the performance of the PI package that you are licensing, and without re-testing it, you have no idea what parameters you've affected.
This is why we see wildly different additive packages from some of the majors like XOM, because they can API approve a product in-house, so they can use any additives they want (borated compounds for example that are both FM's and AW additives), any base oils they want (they use PAO, Group III, GTL, Esters, AN's) and they can run the requisite testing and approve the product. Smaller blenders, if they want to approve a product, have to send it out to a certified lab to have the testing performed and once it's approved, they can't tweak many parts of it and keep it approved without having it tested again. Yes, this limits their flexibility, but it is designed this way to ensure compliance with standards that guarantee a certain level of performance in numerous areas.
The API approvals are the foundation for many of the OEM approvals, for example Dexos, the Ford WSS approvals, the FCA/Stallantis MS-xxx approvals...etc. All build on the API approvals and either change limits (like Ford does) or does that, and adds more testing (Dexos).
Now, if an oil has Porsche A40 on top of ACEA A3/B4, I'm not going to give two hoots about API SN/SP...etc, because that is more than captured under the ACEA sequences and Porsche A40 goes WAY above and beyond. But while that seems to be implied in the statement, I doubt they are selling oils carrying demanding OE approvals that aren't also approved for API or ACEA.
Well, that's just nonsense, lol. Mobil, Shell, Castrol, all produce very different looking oils in a VOA (and yes, VOA's are limited to only showing us metallic additives, there are other changes "under the hood" that we can't see), and these are the three largest oil companies on the planet producing lubricants for the consumer space.
Now, in the small blender space, yes, there are some extremely similar looking products, many of them even come from the same blenders (like Warren). Royal Purple was famously slagged on here for looking like Valvoline, and, it's quite possible that they were indeed just buying the same additive package. NAPA oil is Valvoline. Supertech, Kirkland, and other "store" brands are typically Warren. Redline "Professional" oils are just Kendall/Philips 66 (the parent company now).
Given that Triax DOES sell API-approved products, and do not have the capability to run the approvals in-house, they do in fact "do this", as is the case for the product in this thread, which is API SN Plus.
garageman402
$100 Site Donor 2024
Did you check out the second link? You have to expand with the "more comments" button to get to Triax's reply
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