Transmission fluid change

W8liftr · Mar 23, 2003

For those of you who switched to synthetic transmission fluid, when, mileage wise, did you make that change? I'm thinking of switching to a synthetic (either Amsoil, Redline D4 ATF, or Royal Purple Max ATF, maybe even M1) in my 02 Grand Am GT at my first tire rotation in about 300 miles. It'll have 6000 miles on it then.

Funny thing is, the local Pontiac dealer said that they wouldn't be able to guarantee any work done to the transmission (possibly even future warranty work) if a non-GM approved transmission fluid was used. While the service manager was aware of the 4 above fluids I mentioned, he said that GM hasn't officially approved any of them. Sounds like their way of wiggling out of any warranty work in the future. Why the negative attitude toward synthetics? From what I've read here, they seem to outperform any conventional transmission fluid.

W8liftr · Mar 23, 2003

The Pontiac service manager here also told me that the GM ATF was "good enough" and saw no reason to use synthetics. Guess I'm not the type to do things just "good enough." Probably explains why I frequent this forum

I'm going to do the change anyway (it sucks that we have to resort to what seems like subterfuge to take care of our new vehicles) and will do some more research on which synthetic to use. At least all 4 of my choices are Dexron III compatible. Although I don't drive my car hard, it gets pretty hot around here and most of my driving is in the city. 6000 miles seemed to be a nice round number to make the change. I may even pull some fluid for an analysis to see how well the GM stuff held up during break-in.

Thanks for your input...

Ken2 · Mar 23, 2003

W8liftr,

How about finding out the exact spec of the ATF your Pontiac, then contacting each AFT maker and get their response? If you do this, pls let us all know the answers.

I agree with unDummy...do it yourself or have an idependent shop install your choice of Dexron III synthetic ATF, and keep mum if you have a warranty claim on your transmission. As long as it's red and slippery, the dealer won't question what you have.

Ken

msparks · Mar 24, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by W8liftr:
Funny thing is, the local Pontiac dealer said that they wouldn't be able to guarantee any work done to the transmission (possibly even future warranty work) if a non-GM approved transmission fluid was used.

Basically your dealer is an idiot.

The specific fluids that you mention are made to a certian specification to meet. For instance Dexron III. If the bottles say's it meets Dexron III then it is okay to use.

They cannot force you to use the GM product and deny your warrenty unless they provide the product free as part of a warrenty. IE, the car says it needs to use this fluid and we provide it at no cost.

If you have any problems or questions let me know. As a matter of fact if you send me the Name of the dealer and a contact person. I'll forward that to Amsoil and they will send them a letter informing them of the facts.

Hope this helps.

send me an email if you want me to get a letter over to them.

[email protected]

Ray H · Mar 24, 2003

Agree, Malibu. The manufacturer is under no obligation to even offer a warranty in the first place. However having done so for whatever reason, the terms of that warranty are a contract between manufacturer and owner, with maintenance specifics spelled out in the owner's manual. If a car owner insists on second-guessing the manufacturer's engineers and legal department, he has no one to blame except himself if he finds himself facing a $2,000.00, or more, rebuild or exchange. Don't bet on the assurance that the manufacturer might not have a sample of the ATF drawn and analyzed, either. G.M.'s not in the habbit of giving away rebuilds if it suspects its directions weren't followed to the letter of the "bible" (owner's manual). As for the niche oil purveyors' assurances - just exactly what will they cover in the event your transmission takes its final dump on the highway using their product? Has anyone here actually had, or know someone who has, a full rebuild of a major powertrain item at the oil purveyor's expense?

W8liftr · Mar 24, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Malibu:
W8liftr, the owners manual is always the ultimate authority about what lubricant to use, not the dealer (unless the dealer can show you a factory technical bulletin that updates what the manual says).

What does the owners manual say?

The manual says that a Dexron III fluid must be used. It says nothing about not using a synthetic or other dino.

And thanks, msparks, I think I just may follow up on your offer.

In the end, it shouldn't be this difficult to run the kind of fluids we want in our vehicles.

Fillherup · Mar 24, 2003

I have used Mobil 1 ATF since new in a 95 Camry V6 Auto without any problems. However look at this link.

New GM atf specs

I guess GM sees something wrong with some ATFs.

unDummy · Mar 24, 2003

There is no way(without telling them) that any dealer can figure out if the fluid is a synthetic or not. I also change as soon as possible and continue to practice normal change intervals regardless of brand/type chosen.

Redline/Amsoil/Mobil1 make excellent ATFs that are Dexron3 compatible.

7TFord · Mar 24, 2003

....I'm not sure that they have a dislike of synthetics, rather they'd obviously have you buy their fluid and have them do the work! I've used Mobil 1 synthetic ATF in my Toyota Tacoma 4x4 and Corolla since new, and use Redline Racing ATF in my 70 Mustang. I changed out my daily drivers at about the same mileage you are at now. Mind you both my applications call for Dexron II or III which is covered by the Mobil product. I have had no problems of any kind. I assume that your car calls for the same type II or III fluid thus there shouldn't be any problems in you switching. I guess the warranty is of concern, but if the transmission fails it won't be due to the use of synthetic fluid. I wouldn't tell them, and I'm sure they wouldn't know what fluid you are using.

[ March 24, 2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: 7TFord ]

Ken2 · Mar 24, 2003

Fillerup,
Or...GM is trying to cover weaknesses in their automatic transmissions.

W8liftr,
Yes, 'cuz the synthetic oil products, by definition, do not contain GR-I, GR-II, or GR-II+ base oils. The cheaper synthetic oil products will be made from Group III base oils, and the true synthetics will be made from Group IV and/or Group V base stocks.

Check again with the dealer, maybe the parts guy. If the ATF they're using is indeed the new Dexron III H spec, then it might serve your needs better. If it's the old spec, use the good Dexron III ATF of your choice.

Ken

W8liftr · Mar 25, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Fillherup:

New GM atf specs

I guess GM sees something wrong with some ATFs.

Just got off the phone with Tech support at Mobil 1. When asked about the new GM specs, the tech told me that Group I, II, and II-plus base oil distinctions are irrelevant where full synthetic transmission fluid is concerned because they apply only to conventional fluid. Is this accurate? This stuff is getting confusing

By the way, he also told me that Mobil 1 ATF meets current "G" specs, and had no info on whether or not M1 will change to the new "H" specs.

W8liftr · Apr 12, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Ken2:
W8liftr,

How about finding out the exact spec of the ATF your Pontiac, then contacting each AFT maker and get their response? If you do this, pls let us all know the answers.

Ken

Ok, so here's what I found out about the GM factory fill transmission fluid (in my vehicle with a build date of 11/01) as well as Amsoil Synthetic ATF, Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF, Royal Purple Max ATF, and Redline Synthetic D4 ATF (as well as their Synthetic High-Temp ATF). DISCLAIMER: All of this information came from tech support at each of the companies, so don't kill the messenger if you have conflicting data

The GM factory fill fluid (in my car) has a Group II base oil and a G Dexron alpha code. Current GM vehicles have fluid that meets the new H spec. Amsoil, M1, and Royal Purple have Group IV base stock. Redline has Group V base stock.

As far as alpha codes for the synthetics are concerned, M1 meets the G spec only. All the other synthetics meet the new H spec.

Also, Redline already meets specs for Dexron IV.

[ April 12, 2003, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: W8liftr ]

1maniac · Apr 15, 2003

I had a '89 bonneville at the dealer several years ago and they were trying to sel me on this T-Tech transmission service. Flushes all teh fluid out etc etc. I asked if their was a way to do it with Mobil 1 ATF. You woulda thought a bomb went off in the service dept. The service manager poo-pooed synthetics for about 15 mins. I wrote to M1 and they in turn wrote to the dealer. I eventually went to the locall quick lube and had them give me the T-Tech service with Amsoil ATF. Big difference.

outrun · Apr 17, 2003

Sounds like the dealer is stating a policy in violation of the:

MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY ACT

I need not further explain.

outrun · Apr 17, 2003

1maniac,

Sorry for a repost yall,

. I eventually went to the locall quick lube and had them give me the T-Tech service with Amsoil ATF. Big difference.

Nice to see another happy user of the T-Tech ATF flushing service here. I have long been a proponent of this wonderful service. It is catching on across the country as owners wisen up and vehicles mileage lives are increasing.

Shame on your dealer too for belittling the effectiveness of Synthetics..either based on ignorance or them understanding that the Synthetic will significantly prolong your trans-life meaning less $$$ for their service department giving you a $$$ future overhaul

Magnuson-Moss !!!

1maniac · Apr 18, 2003

outrun,

yes, the T-Tech is a great service indeed

and is even better with synthetic ATF, IMO. as far as the stealer, I think the svc. manager was just ignorant to lubricants in general and syntehtics to be specific.

H20024.6L · Apr 19, 2003

Question regarding transmission fluid changes. I have a 2002 Mountaineer with a 5R55W transmission, which is sealed, no stick. I've called the dealer and asked about a flush/pan drop and then told me not to do it. Said the transmission is sealed and to 'leave it alone.' I called a mechanic I know and trust and he called his Ford dealer and they told him the same thing, 'leave it alone.' I've always dropped the pan and had the fluid changed in all my cars/trucks. I can't believe this fluid should stay in there without changing. Anybody else run across this issue with Ford on the 5R55W?

unDummy · Apr 19, 2003

The 5R55 can be flushed by tapping the ATF cooler.

There are other sealed transmissions that can be flushed the same way.

Fluid doesn't last forever.

[ April 19, 2003, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: unDummy ]

Ray H · Apr 20, 2003

Hmmm... Has GM actually issued a Dexron-IV specification? Or is Redline prematurely releasing their own speculated Dexron-IV formulation? Kinda reckless if the latter. Particularly since "Dexron" is copyrighted by GM. I believe a licensing fee has to be paid to GM, too, for products bearing the Dexron identification.

Transmission fluid change

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