Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife

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Doesn't the clutch support the full torque of the load or is there some massive torque multiplication going on? I am visualizing automatic transmission clutches as not much different than that of the manual transmission clutch i.e. the friction material is literally transmitting the power NOT LIKE FLUID COUPLING! In that case, even if the entire transmission case is filled with thick grease, it still will not be able to transmit the power! I am thinking that if two surface are not clamping with good force, regardless of the goop that is added won't make any difference even if it is gritty. That would only come in to picture while they in the process of the clamping aka function of synchronizer rings on manual transmission during gear change. Is gritty fluid acting as synchronizer or as clutch?

I will be up front and admit that my knowledge about automatic transmission is meager and trying to apply manual transmission concepts to it is not the best thing to understand it either!
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Reasonably good? You could see through it on the dipstick. Perfect pink with that wonderful smell. No transmission problems at all. Complete a switch to MaxLife and off to the junk pile.


The reason I phrased it that way is because the fluid had significant mileage and that does factor in to the equation, even though like you state, it appeared to be in fine condition.

I agree with you OilChanger that ML LIKELY had some part in the failure, perhaps the fluid itself was defective.

What makes me VERY suspicious of the ML is the way that Ashland responded to the situation. It seems like their legal department was in full gear to automatically DENY ANY responsibility without properly investigating this particular case.
 
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Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
the fluid is the only variable.


There were 3 variables - the fluid, the filter, and your work.

You don't even want to consider the first 2, so, you've fixated on the 3rd....

But without the forensic analysis, you'll never know if one of those 3 variables caused the death of your transmission....

Or it was just coincidence.

Correlation is not always causality...
 
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I blame the fluid.

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
the fluid is the only variable.


There were 3 variables - the fluid, the filter, and your work.

You don't even want to consider the first 2, so, you've fixated on the 3rd....

But without the forensic analysis, you'll never know if one of those 3 variables caused the death of your transmission....

Or it was just coincidence.

Correlation is not always causality...
 
The answer came from GM mechanic familiar with common issues in the specific tranny.

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I wouldn't call one post/reply from an obscure website as well establishing anything.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
News to me. My transmission was neither neglected or weak.


According to a GM mechanic about 2005 Astro Van:

Quote:
the 3-4 clutch is problematic when these get old


http://www.justanswer.com/chevy/5p49r-chevrolet-astro-2005-chevy-astro-van-transmission-wont-go.html
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Coworker's 02 S10 tranny (probably the same or similar 4L60E) blew up the same way and he didn't keep it maintained. Hard part failure. Go figure.
confused2.gif



The 4L60E is somewhat prone to sun shell failures, and it can happen before 100K miles regardless of maintenance.

I say somewhat prone, since many 4L60Es go a long time without any issues. It's common enough though that there is a replacement called "The Beast":
http://racetransmissions.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/203_204_206_350/products_id/692

This could just be another 4L60E that bit the dust early without any real prior warning.

Though I am not a Maxlife user or fan (indifferent), I don't think changing the fluid with new fluid that meets spec would cause the failure.

Edit...Sunnyinhollister beat me to it.
 
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It is possible, that the new ATF being thinner than original is dislodging or dissolving stuff, and clog up solenoid passage or free up passages and cause uneven clutch pressure, therefore shudder and damages.

It is possible that any fluid change would shock the system and cause problem, maxlife or not. It is one extra variable when using non factory approved part with part vendor claiming compatibility.

Hard to know without a tear down.
 
Wow! Y'all are trying to stretch meager facts pretty far here, aren't you? I think Astro 14 may have said it best:
Quote:
There were 3 variables - the fluid, the filter, and your work.

You don't even want to consider the first 2, so, you've fixated on the 3rd....

But without the forensic analysis, you'll never know if one of those 3 variables caused the death of your transmission....

Or it was just coincidence.

Correlation is not always causality...


I think in the line in red, he meant to say, " You don't want to consider two of the three and fixated on the third."

In truth, we are NEVER going to know the cause and it's going to be a case of believe what one WANTS to believe. OilChanger, being the person with a $2700 bill shoved up his heinie, is probably most entitled to his delusion ( : < ). The rest of us just need to get a life!
 
Thank you again, Jim. I'm not mad anymore. It would be irrational if I still was. It's not pride either. I KNOW I did a perfect job.

I do not like the way I was treated by Ashland after the fact. As a result, I choose not to support their products.

Currently on BITOG, MaxLife is on a pedestal, much like GC and PYB used to be. When all the fanboys arbitrarily recommend ML, I have no problems stating my opposing view based on my experience.

Caveat Emptor.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I do not like the way I was treated by Ashland after the fact. As a result, I choose not to support their products.

That is where my suspicions come from as to whether or not ML caused any problems.. When a company "blows off" a customer, it makes you wonder.
 
But you did go 73k without a change instead of the recommended 50k.

And the ATF deteriorated all at once. If it was faulty and you checked it every day, you should have seen a gradual deterioration.

And lastly, I think people speak highly about Maxlife engine oil not Maxlife ATF. On ATF the general consensus is to use the ATF specific for the purpose, usually this means an approved ATF and if not to use due diligence to establish a claimed spec meeting ATF is appropriate.
 
It does not matter.

Nowhere in their product literature does it recommend NOT to use MaxLife if your transmission was not serviced at normal intervals.

Furthermore, MaxLife is marketed towards transmissions with more than 75,000 miles. Who does Ashland think will be buying this swill?

Originally Posted By: FoxS
But you did go 73k without a change instead of the recommended 50k.

And the ATF deteriorated all at once. If it was faulty and you checked it every day, you should have seen a gradual deterioration.

And lastly, I think people speak highly about Maxlife engine oil not Maxlife ATF. On ATF the general consensus is to use the ATF specific for the purpose, usually this means an approved ATF and if not to use due diligence to establish a claimed spec meeting ATF is appropriate.
 
The factory filter element looked like light charcoal. The first replacement filter looked brand new on the fourth and final flush but replaced it anyway.

I did not see the second replacement filter. I'm sure it was pretty bad.

Originally Posted By: Donald
Was the filter looked at after it was replaced? I am thinking it was clogging up.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Who does Ashland think will be buying this swill?

I'd guess the tens of thousands of DIY guys that already do and have good results with it for starters...
 
Jim Allen, thank you for your explanation of why transmissions fail after a fluid change.

I've read many posts on other forums where someone will advise NOT to do a "flush" (I assume they mean not to do a "fluid exchange") because it will kill the transmission. I usually respond with a very condensed version of your thesis and it's nice to see some corroboration.

In short: "if fresh fluid killed it, it was already croaked".
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
The sample I sent to Valvoline was poured directly from the pan to the bottles then sealed as I watched.

I can not explain the zinc.

You watched? You mean someone else did the work or some of the fills?
How did the zinc get in there?
 
OilChanger,

How do you think Valvolene should have handled this incident?

Why did you not send a sample to an independent lab for verification ($25)?

Why did you not pay to have the old transmission taken apart(Maybe 1-2 hours labor)?

On a different note, why didn't they rebuild this transmission?


The only evidence presented is Valvolene's lab results that claim the fluid was not defective. If you are correct, you could have saved $2,700, plus, I assume, your costs to prove your stance. I'm not trying to rub salt on the wounds....just trying to make this a learning experience that might help others faced with this type of problem in the future.
 
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