Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife

[Oil Changer]

Vehicle: 2005 Chevrolet Astro RWD.

History: Bought new for the purpose of transporting the wife and I, three medium-sized dogs, and personal and valuable items from SoCal to Michigan.

This van has been the most reliable, easy to maintain vehicle with the lowest cost of ownership I have ever owned. Prior to this incident, the van has had zero maintenance issues. I only performed oil, oil filter, and air filter changes. The fuel filter once.

At this very moment, the van still has the original battery, alternator, plugs, wires, and rear brakes. I have never removed the dog house to expose the engine. No leaks. It runs like the day I drove it off the lot. This van has never towed anything. No hitch, no bumper-mounted ball, nothing. It's never hauled anything heavy. It's not used for commercial purposes. It's driven easily by one of two middle-aged people; my wife or me. What's in the back now? A snow brush. I did have 10 rolls of unfaced R-30 attic insulation in the back a few days ago if you want to call that heavy.

The failure: At about 73,000 miles on the original transmission fluid, I wanted to get it changed out before the weather turned cold. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE TRANSMISSION PRIOR TO THE FLUID EXCHANGE!! I check my fluids regularly. The transmission fluid was always the proper pink with that sweet smell. Always at the proper level. The transmission shifted fine - always. The transmission was NOT "on its way out". I was NOT trying to "fix" anything. I simply wanted to exchange the fluid in the transmission on a vehicle we decided we should keep for a while.

I started by choosing the fluid. M1 was too pricy and the specs on the ML looked good. I called Valvoline and made sure it was the right stuff. Read about it here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...094#Post2741094

Decided to go with the ML. Dropped the pan. Fluid looked great. Filter looked great. The magnet on the bottom of the pan had the typical metal shavings. So far, so good.

Cleaned everything up and changed the filter. Read about that here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...105#Post2746105

I poured the old fluid into an empty 5 quart oil jug. Dropping the pan netted me a little over a gallon. Buttoned everything up and filled with the ML. The following weekend I dropped the pan and refilled with ML. Again this was a little over a gallon. I did not change the filter. I copied this routine the following weekend.

On the fourth weekend, I knew by repeating this procedure, I should have all the original fluid relaced with ML and should be good to go for a long time. Dropped the pan, changed the filter (WIX) and gasket. Buttoned it up and re-filled with the ML.

The level was fine. The gasket and filter was fine. The pan was clean. I didn't do anything stupid or add any additives or flushes.

I was driving the van. I merged from one freeway to another. All seemed well. When I went to accelerate back up to speed, it was like driving a manual and pushing the clutch in while still on the accelerator. I let off the pedal and re-applied. Nothing but RPM. I exited the freeway, pulled over and checked the fluid. It was almost black and had that nauseating burnt smell. I nursed it back home - slowly. I lost third and overdrive.

Took the van to the dealership. They confirmed what I already knew. Best course of action was a reman transmission to the tune of $2700.

I contacted Ashland. They sent an oil sample kit. I sent the sample. This was their response:

"Results indicate that sample formulation is in compliance with the additive package specifications for the Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF. Sample does indicate a significant increase in Iron, indicating potential wear inside the transmission, however as a result of the Valvoline product not showing any signs of failure, this wear has been attributed to the older fluid in the system. This is also evident from the detection of Zinc in the sample, as Zinc is not an additive utilized in the Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF product.
The sample does not indicate any signs of failure and Valvoline stands behind the use of our Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF product for use in this particular application 100%."

Really?

That's all I can stand to write now. Let the fan boys’ jump in. I'll post more later. Ask questions if you got 'em.

 

[volk06]

How did it go from pink to black in that short of time if it was always pink? Did they give you a copy of the UOA?

 

[Oil Changer]

Don't know. Must have been the trace amount of zinc. [Sarcasm off].

Yes, I have a copy of the UOA but I do not know how to post it here. I'd rather be watching the football game. I'll post the UOA numbers later.

Iron (Fe)245
Chromium (Cr) Lead (Pb)35
Copper (Cu)22
Tin (Sn)1
Aluminum (Al)5
Nickel (Ni) Silver (Ag) Titanium (Ti) Vanadium (V) Silicon (Si)11
Sodium (Na)8
Potassium (K)3
Magnesium (Mg)3
Calcium (Ca)221
Barium (Ba) Phosphorus (P)521
Zinc (Zn)19
Molybdenum (Mo) Boron (B)238
Antimony (Sb)<1

 

[buster]

Sorry to hear about this. Hmmmm

 

[simple_gifts]

We appreciate the write up.

 

[Falken]

I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny, especially if it was using a good fluid to start with such as Dexron.

The better approach would have to have been to just use Dexron from the dealer for one drain and fill with a filter change and called it a day.

This is why many people are doing single drain and fills once a year from new now, to never have old toasted fluid to contend with down the road.

 

[buster]

Quote:
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny, .....


I've never received a consistent answer to that question, which I find interesting.

I've done 3 changes in our Mazda 3, which kind of concerns me a bit. LOL

 

[JHZR2]

Sorry to hear about this... But Ive heard of this before, as in rapid changeout of fluid all of a sudden, for whatever reason, causes changes in operation and the AT is shot.

Usually higher miles though... Doesnt an 05 Astro use Dexron III-H which is a 105k mile fluid supposedly?

I always change out in slow increments to start because of my fear of this happening...

Sorry to hear of this.

 

[Oil Changer]

I agree 100% I have bit my tongue for a long time over this. I'm now in the camp that if you have not done routine changes since new, leave it alone. Otherwise stay on top of it like you would engine oil.

Originally Posted By: Falken
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny, especially if it was using a good fluid to start with such as Dexron.

The better approach would have to have been to just use Dexron from the dealer for one drain and fill with a filter change and called it a day.

This is why many people are doing single drain and fills once a year from new now, to never have old toasted fluid to contend with down the road.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Falken
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny, especially if it was using a good fluid to start with such as Dexron.


I do it a quart at a time for the first while, and then ultimately do a filter change and then more substantial changeouts. Gentle, slight changes is my name of the game, FWIW. Havent had an issue this way yet, with high mile ATs...

 

[Oil Changer]

Yes, so 75,000 should have been an early change. Valvoline never mentioned the mileage or the fact it was the OEM fluid.

I wanted all the fluid changed before winter weather so I changed the fluid one pan drop each weekend for a month.

 

[fdcg27]

This seems really strange.
I can't imagine anything close to ATF ruining a tranny that quickly.
I'd love to hear from some experienced techs on this trans failure.
Was it really the Maxlife ATF?
I myself have changed fluids on older, neglected automatics without incident, save for better operation after the change.
The OP's trans was apparently neither old nor neglected so I wonder what might have happened.
I still think that it wasn't the Maxlife ATF.

 

[NHGUY]

Lost a 41TE Chrysler tranny at 70K miles after a fluid/filter change.First the TC slipped,then 4th gear went out.I'm not going to blame the Mopar ATF+4 fluid or the WIX filter.It was a coincidence.I'm sure it would have happened even without doing the fluid change.The damage at 70K was already done.

 

[bigjl]

Every 40k on the Taxi.

That is the interval that the manufacturer dictates.

It is a Chrysler transmission apparently and the 40k change includes the filter, there are apparently two.

Not sure what US vehicles have this transmission but it takes Chrysler spec fluid (ATF + 4 i think) and is a four speed.

It is regarded as a more fragile transmission than the one fitted to previous London Taxis.

Mine is still lovely and pink and getting changed later this month.

I don't get involved in changing fluids in autoboxes, I have a specialist that charges £140+ vat @ 20%.

 

[Falken]

Oil Changer, I agree with what you just said, BUT 75000 Miles is 121,000 km, and it did sit in the vehicle for 8 years through a lot of heat cycles.

To us in Canada, 100,000 km is the max time people generally wait to do a complete fluid change as per the manual.

But I'd have to guess the manual would assume you'd use the exact same fluid (no difference in chemistry) as the one the manufacturer put in almost a decade ago, Dexron III.

Dexron is universally known to be a de facto serviceable ATF fluid, and many MTs use it even.

I don't see it as unreasonable that something would break down at that point.

Now, I am not saying a trans is like a gold fish, and if you take one from a dirty tank that it lived in it's whole life then put it in a pristine tank only to kill it, but it is just chemistry working on seals and friction materials with old cooked glues in there.

ATF is known to be a fantastic cleaner, especially when new, and when there is dirt there for it to act on, it may have clogged something bad and cooked your trans, maybe even your brand new filter got overloaded very fast.

But this is just all part of the folklore regarding this phenomenon, that I do find believable especially when using a different ATF fluid than the oil one you got rid of.

 

[daman]

Very unusual in deed, over the years Ive done dozens of fluid changes even flushes(line flushing)on GM transmissions and high mileage ones too, Ive never even as much as had a hiccup doing it never any problems.

Sorry to hear.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Whatever happened to your transmission was going to happen anyway sooner or later.

When I got my Cherokee, the first thing I did was change out the ATF. The fluid in my Cherokee was pretty good but I put in the wrong fluid ... had a bunch of leftovers mercon fluid from my Taurus ... no failure. I also did a fluid change and own drop on a friends 200k mile Cherokee. We pumped all the old fluid out by ripping off a trans line and just adding ... he was hard on it all summer and no failure

 

[2cool]

In my circle of professional acquaintances, it is generally agreed that if a tranny has gone over 5 years, a total fluid exchange is a grenade. The theory is that new fluid will cause the varnished seals and clutch packs to let all of the crud loose at once, plugging the oil passages and the filter; starving the transmission of oil. The reason this happens is that the shop usually just hooks up the exchange pump and the old, partially clogged filter isn't replaced.
I believe that for all the amount of Max-Life sold, and the lack of many more blown/fried transmissions, it wasn't the cause of your transmission failure. Sorry for your misfortune, after all.

 

[Trav]

I did a car last year with ML. I too would have lost the tranny if i didn't have a little luck.
I drained, removed and cleaned the pan and replaced the filter, filled it 4 qts of ML. This is where it gets interesting.
I always do a line off after replacing the pan and i did it this time. I used clear PCV tubing and put the end in a gallon jug and started the engine.

Normally fluid comes out in a nice solid stream only this time it had lots of small air bubbles right from the start.
Shut it down immediately and dropped the pan. Defective filter sucking air from the seam near the pipe where it went into the tranny, just below the O-Ring!

New filter, refill and try again. Perfect! Doing the line off saved this unit.
I don't have an answer to yours but in decades of doing line off exchanges i have never had one let go no matter how many miles were on the unit, and never had any trouble with ML either.

I have no idea what happened to your tranny or if the fluid caused the problem or not but IMHO there may be more to it than just fluid.

 

[Roadkingnc]

I doubt the fluid composition caused the trans failure. Sounds like a hydraulic circuit failure causing low pressure at the affected clutch pack. You still had low and reverse didnt you?
Not choosing sides here just stating facts. Have you actually ever saw an engine failure caused by the oil itself? Same concept. I have been a technician in a dealership for 25 years and have never seen a failure caused by the brand of fluid used.