Trans Cooler HELP

[accent2012]

Lots of city driving in FL is notorious on ATF fluid.

But given that its an Accord V6. I assume this has the auto-tranny that is known for having its 3rd gear simply stop working due to a defective design causing the clutch to wear prematurely, no matter how well you keep it cool or change the fluid...

 

[MaximaGuy]

Coolers makes a lot of sense in AZ, NV etc where the ambient temperatures are very high. Extra insurance, if you looked through this forum you will seldom see transmissions fail due to irregular maintenance rather more often real engineering faults from manufacturer.

I had shift bangs in winter when I installed a cooler and hated it and promptly removed it. Those zip ties are not the right way to fasten the cooler, use zip ties and fasten it to body frame. Too much hassle guys, not worth a dime.

Modern transmissions are bullet proof across the board and only fail if abused or neglected.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
Modern transmissions are bullet proof across the board and only fail if abused or neglected.
There are some stinkers out there. My Honda among them. My 2002 Honda V6 5spd AT died near 70K miles. Honda Brand Z-1 only drain fill every 10k miles. No towing. No racing. No Italian Tune Up. Rarely WOT only to avoid crash. I do have an ATF cooler and magnefine filter now. Unclear if these help my old Honda.
My experience with 96 Nissan Quest is much better. 145K mi and counting. Shifts normally. Only service is ATF Dex III every 2 yrs or so.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Modern transmissions are bullet proof across the board and only fail if abused or neglected.


Sarcastic dry humor?

 

[spasm3]

Some may disagree , but i don't think you can overcool an automatic trans as long as the engine thermostat is working. Maybe in Fairbanks Alaska.

 

[AP9]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Some may disagree , but i don't think you can overcool an automatic trans as long as the engine thermostat is working. Maybe in Fairbanks Alaska.


I concur. Some transmissions thermostatically control the cooling loop.

 

[meep]

mount on the bottom of the engine compartment, or up in the frame where it can get air but not get smacked by debris.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: AP9
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Some may disagree , but i don't think you can overcool an automatic trans as long as the engine thermostat is working. Maybe in Fairbanks Alaska.


I concur. Some transmissions thermostatically control the cooling loop.


Generally, this is not precisely true. The trans is designed to operate with the oil at a certain viscosity. Remember, it's a hydraulic system and pressures are different with thick (cold) vs thin (hot) oils. This is one reason why the torque converters on many modern electronic transmissions won't lock up when the oil is cold... the system is programmed to make the converter slip to warm the oil as quickly as possible. In many cases, many automatics have a built in temp sensor and (to varying degrees) the PCM is programmed to operate according to the oil temp and there are optimal and sub optimal oil temps. The most likely downside to overcooling the oil is a loss of fuel economy and this will be exacerbated by colder ambient temps. Essentially, you are "fooling" the trans to think the ambient temp is cooler than actual. Might only be a problem for people who have real winters but worth talking about. The answer, of course, is a thermostatic control of some type for the new cooler.

 

[SHOZ]

Ford TC will take longer to lock up if the trans oil is below 120F or so. How would the engine T-stat help this out?

The trans cooler is on the cold side of the radiator if it is across flow. When it is really cold out the coolant on that side is barely above ambient.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Ford TC will take longer to lock up if the trans oil is below 120F or so. How would the engine T-stat help this out?

The trans cooler is on the cold side of the radiator if it is across flow. When it is really cold out the coolant on that side is barely above ambient.


An oil t-stat, not the engine t-stat. They make them for trans coolers. My Ford already has an t-stat on the cooler lines to help warmup but it's fairly crude.

 

[SHOZ]

Yes I know an oil t-stat will help. I was referencing the quote in your earlier reply about the engine thermostat.

FWIW I could monitor the trans oil temp on my Taurus. And with the SCT tuning I lowered the TC lockup temp to 90F with no issues. Stock if it was not warmed up to within 5 miles the TC would not lock up on very cold days.

 

[rslifkin]

I run a pretty big trans cooler on my Jeep and have the rad cooler bypassed. No t-stat on the cooler loop, and even in 0* weather, it hits the 50* minimum for OD and TC lockup within a 1/2 mile. It definitely shifts differently when the fluid is too cold, but it warms up enough to feel normal and behave fine after 3 - 4 miles of driving. It's definitely possible to overcool an automatic, but not terribly easy to do.

 

[AP9]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
An oil t-stat, not the engine t-stat. They make them for trans coolers. My Ford already has an t-stat on the cooler lines to help warmup but it's fairly crude.


That's what I meant, ATF thermostat-like device as opposed to water thermostat. e.g. 2000 Explorer with 5R55E transmission, what I have; not sure if it's a "true" thermostat or not but it doesn't allow flow to the cooling loop until 140°+.

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I run a pretty big trans cooler on my Jeep and have the rad cooler bypassed. No t-stat on the cooler loop, and even in 0* weather, it hits the 50* minimum for OD and TC lockup within a 1/2 mile. It definitely shifts differently when the fluid is too cold, but it warms up enough to feel normal and behave fine after 3 - 4 miles of driving. It's definitely possible to overcool an automatic, but not terribly easy to do.


Agreed; once you're shifting it will warm up pretty quickly.

 

[marc1]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
I work at a radiator shop and we are always fixing damage that's caused by those zippy things. They WILL eventually wear a hole in 1 or more tubes!

I recommend that you buy some metal straps and mount those to the core support then use the zippy things to hold the cooler to the straps.


This is good to know. I have installed the stacked fin coolers on some of my automatic equipped muscle cars over the years and used the "zip to the rad" method. I never had an issue with the rad tubes but perhaps I was lucky. I will think twice about this on the next car I buy that needs auxiliary transmission cooling. Thanks.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Ford TC will take longer to lock up if the trans oil is below 120F or so. How would the engine T-stat help this out?

The trans cooler is on the cold side of the radiator if it is across flow. When it is really cold out the coolant on that side is barely above ambient.


An oil t-stat, not the engine t-stat. They make them for trans coolers. My Ford already has an t-stat on the cooler lines to help warmup but it's fairly crude.


Your right about the T Stat Jim. I installed that big cooler and above 50F ambient its no problem tranny temps hold steady at 160f.
This transmission uses a 10" higher stall converter so i figured it would make a lot of heat and it sure does with the stock cooler and even over powers it but at 30f and lower ambient it over cooles like crazy, it wont go over 113f even after a long drive.
What is more disturbing is the shift times at this temp got longer which is really not good.
Yes you certainly can over cool the transmission.

This is too cold for optimal transmission life so i went looking for a good thermostat.
I found a top shelf unit made locally and will be reviewing it a few weeks with actual before and after temps and shift time data.

Great story with this thermostat.
I found it online and the company is close so i emailed them for dimensions and country of origin.
It turns out i have done injectors for the owner of the company and had coffee and a long very enjoyable conversation with him (he is also a European), a real nice guy.
The man is meticulous and knows his stuff, i just didn't know he manufactured these controls but after meeting and talking to him i have no question this is better than advertised.

This is the thermostat. His company is the actual manufacturer not the seller. Check out the installation PDF.
If anyone has any questions of this unit or other units he make let me know and i will ask him when i meet with him next week or he may post as he is a BITOG member.

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/708-4921.html

 

[Jim Allen]

That's a seriously nice t-stat. Too bad they don't make one that accepts hard lines. Looks like a good company. I like the packaging for their trans overhaul kits but they still have an alacarte list as well. They even sell Magnefines! Not doing many transmissitons these days, but if I do...!

 

[Trav]

It looks like they do.

http://thermostasis.com/