Tranny fluid from a recent rebild on a 01 vette

gmblack3 · Mar 2, 2003

01 Z06 6 speed with 29K total miles. The tranny was rebuilt at 21k miles at the dealer under warranty. These 6 speeds get ATF dex III. Here is what the fluid looked like 8k miles after the rebuild:

I just sent off for an oil Analysis kit. I put amsoil ATF in the tranny and just changed it again at 800 miles to see how it looked. It was very clean. I used Mobil 1 ATF this time and will change the fluid again and have an Analysis at 35k miles.

7TFord · Mar 2, 2003

.....Not sure but I think I can see the shiny aluminum particles from here. I had particles in my first fluid change in my new 98 Tacoma 4x4. A sign of a normal break-in presumably. I've used Mobil 1 synthetic since then and have changed fluid twice more, with no discoloration. Why the rebuild so early on?.....I'll bet the fluid wasn't pretty at that time!

gmblack3 · Mar 2, 2003

Reverse failure and synchro problems.

I changed the fluid myself at 15k miles to amsoil. The fluid didn't look that bad then at all. The T-56 is not that great. A few guys having synchro problems.

Not sure what the fluid looked like then. Don't know if it could of been much worse than this.

[ March 03, 2003, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: gmblack3 ]

unDummy · Mar 2, 2003

I am not a fan of ATF in manual transmissions. Anything for .25 increase in MPG is BS.

How soon before ATF is used in front/rearends?

Also, since you are going for regular brand swaps and analysis, give these some abuse too------ Neo MTF, Redline MTL, Royal Purple Syncromax.

gmblack3 · Mar 3, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by unDummy:
I am not a fan of ATF in manual transmissions. Anything for .25 increase in MPG is BS.

How soon before ATF is used in front/rearends?

Also, since you are going for regular brand swaps and analysis, give these some abuse too------ Neo MTF, Redline MTL, Royal Purple Syncromax.

Its all about the warranty my friend.

They don't install synthetic ATF in the vettes from the factory, so I doubt thats what they used at the garage for the rebuild. They do install it in the diff.

I got the mobil 1 this time becasue I can get it up the road. The shifting from the amsoil is the same. So I will stick with the Mobil 1 for now.

vettenuts · Mar 3, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by unDummy:
I am not a fan of ATF in manual transmissions. Anything for .25 increase in MPG is BS.

How soon before ATF is used in front/rearends?

Also, since you are going for regular brand swaps and analysis, give these some abuse too------ Neo MTF, Redline MTL, Royal Purple Syncromax.

What are the rammifications, other then warranty, of putting Redline MTL into a transmission that requires ATF? I thought that Redline, ester based, was tough on yellow metals or am I totally mixed up?

[ March 04, 2003, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: vettenuts ]

unDummy · Mar 3, 2003

Manuals don't have slipping clutches, usually don't have pumps(splash/soak lubrication), don't have as many seals(servo/pistons), don't have torque converters(fluid shearing), don't deal with gasoline combustion by-products, don't have.......

I just think that the OEMs should've specified something better(more specific for use) than motoroil&ATF for some manual trannies.
As you already know, ATF and motor oil are pretty specific for their uses. Why anyone would use it in a manual is beyone me.

Someone

already proved how good ATF is as a lube by needing a warranty rebuild. That jar looks just like the metallic red paint that I painted my car with

Rammifications: less wear, longer lasting tranny, more HP, more MPG, easier shifting........

http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/mtlti.htm
http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/mtf.htm
http://www.royalpurple.com/scmax/scmax.shtml

Bub · Mar 4, 2003

Looks like there may be copper in there. The tremmec trannys in GM's often have to be rebuilt in the warranty period because GM uses a crappy hydraulic clutch system that won't let the pressure plate fully release the clutch disk. The funny thing is the old design used on the pre 97 corvettes and pre 98 f-bodys seem to work just fine. Kinda makes you wonder why they changed it.
Bub

gmblack3 · Mar 4, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Bub:
Looks like there may be copper in there. The tremmec trannys in GM's often have to be rebuilt in the warranty period because GM uses a crappy hydraulic clutch system that won't let the pressure plate fully release the clutch disk. The funny thing is the old design used on the pre 97 corvettes and pre 98 f-bodys seem to work just fine. Kinda makes you wonder why they changed it.
Bub

True!! Got 2 friends with Z06s that had full clutch systems replaced under warranty. The clutch pedal sticks to the floor.

The 6 speeds in the C4s where much better.

vettenuts · Mar 4, 2003

I checked the Redline web site, and they recommend the use of their D4 ATF if the original oil is ATF.

vettenuts · Mar 4, 2003

I think the pedal on the floor issue is heat related. However, GM is working on a TSB for the clutch that has to do with tightening torque. They aren't releasing a lot of information on it yet, but it seems to have to do with the tighening sequence and consistency of application at the factory. It cycles the hydraulic slave at the clutch which subsequently doesn't release properly. Aggressive driving brings the problem on sooner, which may be a good thing if you get if fixed under warranty.

Pablo · Mar 4, 2003

Holy Particleboy!! That just doesn't look good...I would be hard-pressed to put any brand Dexron ATF back in that tranny. Does not seem like a good application. Does anyone run MTL or ART in these transmissions?

vettenuts · Mar 4, 2003

Pablo,

I actually posted that question over on the Corvette forum I belong to. I did my first change from stock to Amsoil at about 600 miles and while I didn't catch the oil in a clear jar like the photo above, I could tell is had metal in it. I plan to do the next change some time this summer, currently with Amsoil, and will collect some of the oil as it comes out.

Bror Jace · Mar 4, 2003

That picture looks like that radiator stop leak product which is a lot of flake-sized copper particles in a clear jar. Anyone know the brand I'm thinking of?

nuts: "I thought that Red Line, ester based, was tough on yellow metals or am I totally mixed up?"

GL-4 Red Line (including MTL, MT-90, etc ...) is non-corrosive unlike the sulfur compounds in GL-5 gear oils.

If you look at some of the motor oil test results on this site, including one from a V6 Toyota Sienna, you'll see extraordinarily low amounts of wear metals of all kinds ... including the copper and tin found in brass parts. This could not be possible if the esters in the base oils attacked/corroded these metals directly.

A theory proposed by Terry and others is that when you first switch to Red Line, the solvency action of the polyol ester dissolves old deposits inside the motor and these deposits hold bits of metal worn off previously. These old bits are held in suspension and show up in used oil analyses.

This is why we see the first results from using Red Line sometimes look disappointing as they often have a "spike" of wear metals. This, however, settles down if the owner continues to use Red Line for successive oil changes ... as that Toyota Sienna owner has.

--- Bror Jace

gmblack3 · Apr 4, 2003

Here are the results I got back from blackstone. Any comments?

vettenuts · Apr 4, 2003

I am a little confused by your original post, are you running Mobil now or Amsoil? The sample was Amsoil, correct?

gmblack3 · Apr 4, 2003

That was the GM stock fluid in the sample after the rebuild at the dealer. I then put in amsoil and changed it after 800 miles or so to see what it looked liked. Now I have Mobil 1 ATF in the tranny.

vettenuts · Apr 4, 2003

The Amsoil came out clean, correct? Why did you go to M1, just out of curiosity?

gmblack3 · Apr 4, 2003

The amoil came out clean at 800 miles after getting out what you see above.

Then I put mobil 1 in. I used that because I could get it easier, than tracking down the amsoil guy.

Tranny fluid from a recent rebild on a 01 vette

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