TPMS an Issue on Winter Wheels?

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SubLGT

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A lot of people decline to install TPMS on their winter wheels even though TPMS was standard equipment on their vehicle. But this practice is illegal, and many tire shops may decline this practice.

" ........Question: If the customer has an extra set of wheels to be installed and refuses to either install the OEM sensors or purchase another set of sensors for those wheels, can the shop install the wheels?"

"...........Answer: According to NHTSA, "a service provider would violate the ‘make inoperative’ prohibition of 49 USC 30122(b) by installing new tires and wheels that do not have a functioning TPMS system. To avoid a "make inoperative" violation, the service provider would need to decline to install the new tires and rims, use the TPMS sensors from the original wheels (if they are compatible), or convince the motorist to purchase new TPMS sensors and ensure that the sensors are properly integrated with the vehicle's TPMS system."

"We are admittedly surprised by NHTSA's response that aftermarket tire and wheels must include TPMS sensors," said Roy Littlefield, TIA executive vice president................."

Above text is from:
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Safety_Ma...ing-Sensors.htm

Also see:
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/201...omplicated.html
 
So what's the loophole? Mount snows on loose rims then in a separate transaction mount the assemblies?
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Mount snows on loose rims and do nothing more?

The customer would have to mount them on the vehicle?


Possibly. As long as your vehicle information is not in their database, they may be willing to mount tires without TPMS.

But you know this scenario has happened or will happen: Customer gets winter tires installed on winter wheels that he drops off at the tire shop, tells shop his car does not require TPMS. Two months later, tire destroys itself on freeway because of very low pressure, and his 2011 car ends up on its roof and driver is injured. Driver sues tire dealer for not installing federally mandated safety device on his winter wheels.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Mount snows on loose rims and do nothing more?

The customer would have to mount them on the vehicle?


Possibly. As long as your vehicle information is not in their database, they may be willing to mount tires without TPMS.

But you know this scenario has happened or will happen: Customer gets winter tires installed on winter wheels that he drops off at the tire shop, tells shop his car does not require TPMS. Two months later, tire destroys itself on freeway because of very low pressure, and his 2011 car ends up on its roof and driver is injured. Driver sues tire dealer for not installing federally mandated safety device on his winter wheels.


Well, are you suggesting that I have to purchase TPM's for our 2001 Impala, or 1985 Olds 88, when we have snows mounted? Neither of these vehicles have a TPM system.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
Well, are you suggesting that I have to purchase TPM's for our 2001 Impala, or 1985 Olds 88, when we have snows mounted? Neither of these vehicles have a TPM system.

As linked in the OP,
mandatory in all cars manufactured on or after September 1, 2007 with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 lbs. and under
 
Hmm...
OTOH, the TPMS sensor stems are costly in some applications.
They're pretty reasonable for others.
OTOH, do you really want to drive along for months looking at that dash light?
You could have the snows put on loose rims and just mount the tire and wheel assemblies yourself, which isn't that big of a deal.
It sounds as though most tire shops aren't going to mount rims without TPMS on a TPMS vehicle.
I'm sure the word is out to the shops, and this isn't a violation of the CFR, according to NHTSA.
It's a violation of USC, or statute, which could be criminal, not merely civil.
I might do the wrong thing myself, but I wouldn't ask a shop to put itself in that position.
In the case of an accident causing either severe harm or death, the shop owner or manager could be held criminally liable, even though the absence of the TPMS stems would not likely have been the cause.
The shop might have civil liability in any case.
The shops I deal with for tire work, exhaust work and repairs I no longer wish to tackle are small indies.
I would not think to jepordise their livelihood by asking them to do something with potentially impoverishing consequences.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
..........Well, are you suggesting that I have to purchase TPM's for our 2001 Impala, or 1985 Olds 88, when we have snows mounted? Neither of these vehicles have a TPM system.


No, but depending on how paranoid your tire dealer is about liability issues, they may ask for proof of vehicle model and year.
 
And with many vehicles the owner(s) would have to take it to the dealer to get them to program the vehicle to work with a second set of TPM's if the owner chose to have two sets of rims with two sets of TPM's. And the dealer may charge somewhere around $100 for this service. So are these vehicle owners to pay $100 or possibly more, twice a year because they have two sets of rims with two sets of TPM's?

Many would just put a piece of black tape over the dash light.
 
If the tpms fails on my Hyundai, i don't plan on replacing them, i will find a tire shop and loose mount the rims and install them myself. I check air pressure regularly, and don't care for expensive systems that fail.
 
Last edited:
I just went through something similar with our 2008 Honda Odyssey LX, when having my used set of Blizzack WS60's installed.

The installer attempted to replace two of my broken TPMS sensors with aftermarket units. Two visits and several hours of sitting in the waiting room and they gave up trying to get them to work with the van.

They yanked the two sensors and installed rubber valve stems n/c.

I'm sure your large franchise tire places will insist on a properly functioning TPMS system at some point just so they can flog you for more money, but right now, they'll loose their arse on such a proposition.

The tire guys wasted hours on my van and made zero dollars aside from the $60 to mount/balance/install 4 snows.

Joel
 
With manufacturers disabling DIY TPMS relearn or making one buy the resetter, those of us who choose to run snow tires on separate wheels are being penalized if we do not DIY mount the winter wheels. Oh wait, snow tires are for the bourgeoisie, not us mere mortals.

The ideal would be either making the TPMS reset free when swapping to winter tires, or doing away with TPMS.

Personally, one of our cars has the second set of TPMS sensors, the other does not. The one that has the sensors also allows the tire pressure to be checked from the dashboard. The other displays an idiot light all winter. They both get checked with a pencil gauge every month.
 
My Corolla only has the capacity for 1 set of OEM sensors at a time, there is no "recognizing a second set" nonsense. Getting a second set for the winters is not possible without a full ECU re-flash to accommodate.

I live with the TPMS indicator lit on my dash all winter no problem...it tells me "While I can still drive around under control, all the other complete morons around me can't"

Good luck enforcing this one. There will always be a way around it.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I live with the TPMS indicator lit on my dash all winter no problem...it tells me "While I can still drive around under control, all the other complete morons around me can't"


Ditto here.
 
What's nuts about it is all makes/models use different TPMS sensors and require different equipment for programming.

A tire shop would need ~$10K worth of equipment to satisfy a good chunk of current makes/models.

I know the shop that worked on my Honda had a newer ~$1200 Snap-On TPMS programmer that wouldn't work with my Honda.

Joel
 
The real killer is the fact that a large amount only store 1 set of sensors.

some cars can store 2 sets.


I'm not paying 2 hours of labor a year to get them changed over in the computer by the dealer. so I dont have a light.


one alternative i didnt see mentioned is Cloning sensors.

you can buy a set and clone your current oem ones.

but they arent available for everything.
 
I ran with a light on my previous Focus and MKZ. With the OE set in the basement, the TPMS Fault would reset at every start-up. It would then come on again after ~ 20 mi of driving. I could drive all day w/o a light if making several short trips. The system was easy to confuse -- which is pathetic if you ask me. It should be an immediate fault once it cannot talk to a sensor. They have saved me a couple times as well.
 
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