Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor
- Thread starter tenderloin
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
+1
Doesn't take Albert Einstein to figure out where you work....
Yep. But I am know for being open minded.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
+1
Doesn't take Albert Einstein to figure out where you work....
Yep. But I am know for being open minded.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: prax
Quote:
Drivers in other crashes also found it difficult to rein in a runaway Toyota. Guadalupe Gomez of Redwood City said he was held hostage for 20 miles on a Bay Area freeway by a 2007Camry traveling more than 100 mph.
Gomez was unable to turn off the engine or shift into neutral and then burned out his brakes before slamming into another car and killing that driver, said attorney Louis Franecke, who represented that victim's family.
20 miles???
Maybe you would freeze and do nothing for the first couple of miles, but 20 miles???
Yeah, this one's not really passing my smell test. Something is not being told (or fictional things ARE being told...). I suppose you could dilly-dally with the brakes if the engine was in runaway condition, burning them up, but that could happen in any car. I have a hard time believing that if you mashed the brakes to the floor, even if you fail to select Neutral, you could not force the car to a stop (albeit an ungraceful one...).
Reminds me too of the 1980s Audi problem. IIRC, the joke was, "What does AUDI stand for?" Answer: Acceleration Under Demonic Influence. Only a matter of time before the jokes start from this story.
The way I read it -WOT no or little vacum left for brake boost,brakes marginal in fact the forces are addressed in the story -massive-
So brakes are dragging not locking up the tires hence the fire seen under car
Originally Posted By: prax
Quote:
Drivers in other crashes also found it difficult to rein in a runaway Toyota. Guadalupe Gomez of Redwood City said he was held hostage for 20 miles on a Bay Area freeway by a 2007Camry traveling more than 100 mph.
Gomez was unable to turn off the engine or shift into neutral and then burned out his brakes before slamming into another car and killing that driver, said attorney Louis Franecke, who represented that victim's family.
20 miles???
Maybe you would freeze and do nothing for the first couple of miles, but 20 miles???
Yeah, this one's not really passing my smell test. Something is not being told (or fictional things ARE being told...). I suppose you could dilly-dally with the brakes if the engine was in runaway condition, burning them up, but that could happen in any car. I have a hard time believing that if you mashed the brakes to the floor, even if you fail to select Neutral, you could not force the car to a stop (albeit an ungraceful one...).
Reminds me too of the 1980s Audi problem. IIRC, the joke was, "What does AUDI stand for?" Answer: Acceleration Under Demonic Influence. Only a matter of time before the jokes start from this story.
The way I read it -WOT no or little vacum left for brake boost,brakes marginal in fact the forces are addressed in the story -massive-
So brakes are dragging not locking up the tires hence the fire seen under car
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
PT1, this is a picture of a 2009 ES350 shifter that was posted by someone else in another thread. Does your 2008 have this same shifter?
Yes, the identical shifter. When in the D position you just push the lever forward and it clicks right into N. If you want to manual shift you pull to the left and down to the lower position then push-click forward into each gear. The driver information readout in between the tach & speedo read which gear you are in. Very simple to work.
PT1, this is a picture of a 2009 ES350 shifter that was posted by someone else in another thread. Does your 2008 have this same shifter?
Yes, the identical shifter. When in the D position you just push the lever forward and it clicks right into N. If you want to manual shift you pull to the left and down to the lower position then push-click forward into each gear. The driver information readout in between the tach & speedo read which gear you are in. Very simple to work.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
You just completely walked around my point.
Just like you walked around GMBoy's point.
You have no problem talking [censored] about Ford. You just did it. AGAIN. You have no problem talking [censored] about GM. You just did it. AGAIN.
But the instant Toyota screws up, you've got a list of excuses longer than Rita McNeill's room service bill. Trying to find the positive, ANY positive out of a very grave situation.
You don't get it. I don't give two sweet squeaks of a Unicorn's sphincter about how Jaque Nasser "screwed up" or how Ralph Nader is the anti-Christ. This thread isn't about Ford OR GM. But you, in your incessant Toyota zealotism made it a point to try and drag Toyota up by AGAIN pushing those two down just so that Toyota doesn't get flamed.
Which wasn't happening anyways!
Why?
Because this isn't a thread about Ford or GM's screw-ups, so you and your posse aren't working the red-eye making sure everybody knows how evil they are and how they are run by [censored]'s disciples and feast on the flesh of little children.
No, this thread is about Toyota having a serious safety issue and a distinct lack of a known cause. That is a genuine concern.
The point being made was that others are grown-up enough not to kick Toyota in the stones when they are down. The same cannot be said for you and Toyota's competition.
You guys need to quit trolling on here...and following my posts with the "see what he said now"? Dude...I'm not your Dad. Get over it.
Who's trolling? A valid point was made and you call it trolling? The one TROLLING is YOU.
In EVERY thread about domestic vehicles.
I don't need to search or follow anything, I just check any current thread with domestic content.
I'm not sure where you were going with the "I'm not your dad" comment. It doesn't fit any way into the feeble point you were trying to make.
I'm not getting over anything. You have created a bit of a reputation for yourself. Those of us who dislike your agenda will continue to take issue with your posts until they lose the zeal and jade that they currently drip with.
And to clarify: I am NOT attacking your Toyota fanboyism. Being a car guy, being a fan of a particular brand, or brands goes with the territory. I'm a Ford guy, as you know.
But when Ford drops the ball, I'll readily admit it. When GM drops the ball, for the most part, the GM guys admit it. There is no perfect brand. They all have their goods and bads. To believe or act otherwise is simply ignorant.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
You just completely walked around my point.
Just like you walked around GMBoy's point.
You have no problem talking [censored] about Ford. You just did it. AGAIN. You have no problem talking [censored] about GM. You just did it. AGAIN.
But the instant Toyota screws up, you've got a list of excuses longer than Rita McNeill's room service bill. Trying to find the positive, ANY positive out of a very grave situation.
You don't get it. I don't give two sweet squeaks of a Unicorn's sphincter about how Jaque Nasser "screwed up" or how Ralph Nader is the anti-Christ. This thread isn't about Ford OR GM. But you, in your incessant Toyota zealotism made it a point to try and drag Toyota up by AGAIN pushing those two down just so that Toyota doesn't get flamed.
Which wasn't happening anyways!
Why?
Because this isn't a thread about Ford or GM's screw-ups, so you and your posse aren't working the red-eye making sure everybody knows how evil they are and how they are run by [censored]'s disciples and feast on the flesh of little children.
No, this thread is about Toyota having a serious safety issue and a distinct lack of a known cause. That is a genuine concern.
The point being made was that others are grown-up enough not to kick Toyota in the stones when they are down. The same cannot be said for you and Toyota's competition.
You guys need to quit trolling on here...and following my posts with the "see what he said now"? Dude...I'm not your Dad. Get over it.
Who's trolling? A valid point was made and you call it trolling? The one TROLLING is YOU.
In EVERY thread about domestic vehicles.
I don't need to search or follow anything, I just check any current thread with domestic content.
I'm not sure where you were going with the "I'm not your dad" comment. It doesn't fit any way into the feeble point you were trying to make.
I'm not getting over anything. You have created a bit of a reputation for yourself. Those of us who dislike your agenda will continue to take issue with your posts until they lose the zeal and jade that they currently drip with.
And to clarify: I am NOT attacking your Toyota fanboyism. Being a car guy, being a fan of a particular brand, or brands goes with the territory. I'm a Ford guy, as you know.
But when Ford drops the ball, I'll readily admit it. When GM drops the ball, for the most part, the GM guys admit it. There is no perfect brand. They all have their goods and bads. To believe or act otherwise is simply ignorant.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PT1
GMBoy said:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
You just completely walked around my point.
Just like you walked around GMBoy's point.
You have no problem talking [censored] about Ford. You just did it. AGAIN. You have no problem talking [censored] about GM. You just did it. AGAIN.
But the instant Toyota screws up, you've got a list of excuses longer than Rita McNeill's room service bill. Trying to find the positive, ANY positive out of a very grave situation.
You don't get it. I don't give two sweet squeaks of a Unicorn's sphincter about how Jaque Nasser "screwed up" or how Ralph Nader is the anti-Christ. This thread isn't about Ford OR GM. But you, in your incessant Toyota zealotism made it a point to try and drag Toyota up by AGAIN pushing those two down just so that Toyota doesn't get flamed.
Which wasn't happening anyways!
Why?
Because this isn't a thread about Ford or GM's screw-ups, so you and your posse aren't working the red-eye making sure everybody knows how evil they are and how they are run by [censored]'s disciples and feast on the flesh of little children.
No, this thread is about Toyota having a serious safety issue and a distinct lack of a known cause. That is a genuine concern.
The point being made was that others are grown-up enough not to kick Toyota in the stones when they are down. The same cannot be said for you and Toyota's competition.
You guys need to quit trolling on here...and following my posts with the "see what he said now"? Dude...I'm not your Dad. Get over it.
Who's trolling? A valid point was made and you call it trolling? The one TROLLING is YOU.
In EVERY thread about domestic vehicles.
I don't need to search or follow anything, I just check any current thread with domestic content.
I'm not sure where you were going with the "I'm not your dad" comment. It doesn't fit any way into the feeble point you were trying to make.
I'm not getting over anything. You have created a bit of a reputation for yourself. Those of us who dislike your agenda will continue to take issue with your posts until they lose the zeal and jade that they currently drip with.
And to clarify: I am NOT attacking your Toyota fanboyism. Being a car guy, being a fan of a particular brand, or brands goes with the territory. I'm a Ford guy, as you know.
But when Ford drops the ball, I'll readily admit it. When GM drops the ball, for the most part, the GM guys admit it. There is no perfect brand. They all have their goods and bads. To believe or act otherwise is simply ignorant.
Troll
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
You just completely walked around my point.
Just like you walked around GMBoy's point.
You have no problem talking [censored] about Ford. You just did it. AGAIN. You have no problem talking [censored] about GM. You just did it. AGAIN.
But the instant Toyota screws up, you've got a list of excuses longer than Rita McNeill's room service bill. Trying to find the positive, ANY positive out of a very grave situation.
You don't get it. I don't give two sweet squeaks of a Unicorn's sphincter about how Jaque Nasser "screwed up" or how Ralph Nader is the anti-Christ. This thread isn't about Ford OR GM. But you, in your incessant Toyota zealotism made it a point to try and drag Toyota up by AGAIN pushing those two down just so that Toyota doesn't get flamed.
Which wasn't happening anyways!
Why?
Because this isn't a thread about Ford or GM's screw-ups, so you and your posse aren't working the red-eye making sure everybody knows how evil they are and how they are run by [censored]'s disciples and feast on the flesh of little children.
No, this thread is about Toyota having a serious safety issue and a distinct lack of a known cause. That is a genuine concern.
The point being made was that others are grown-up enough not to kick Toyota in the stones when they are down. The same cannot be said for you and Toyota's competition.
You guys need to quit trolling on here...and following my posts with the "see what he said now"? Dude...I'm not your Dad. Get over it.
Who's trolling? A valid point was made and you call it trolling? The one TROLLING is YOU.
In EVERY thread about domestic vehicles.
I don't need to search or follow anything, I just check any current thread with domestic content.
I'm not sure where you were going with the "I'm not your dad" comment. It doesn't fit any way into the feeble point you were trying to make.
I'm not getting over anything. You have created a bit of a reputation for yourself. Those of us who dislike your agenda will continue to take issue with your posts until they lose the zeal and jade that they currently drip with.
And to clarify: I am NOT attacking your Toyota fanboyism. Being a car guy, being a fan of a particular brand, or brands goes with the territory. I'm a Ford guy, as you know.
But when Ford drops the ball, I'll readily admit it. When GM drops the ball, for the most part, the GM guys admit it. There is no perfect brand. They all have their goods and bads. To believe or act otherwise is simply ignorant.
Troll
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
Notice the CEO from Toyota publically apologized to the family.If it were a GM they would deny it and hide behind some lawyers skirt. The Ford Firestone issue killed almost 800 people before they even admitted it was an issue. Remember how Ralph Nader got his start?
I beg to differ stupid drivers killed 800 people. the tires were only the trigger to very poor decision making.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
Notice the CEO from Toyota publically apologized to the family.If it were a GM they would deny it and hide behind some lawyers skirt. The Ford Firestone issue killed almost 800 people before they even admitted it was an issue. Remember how Ralph Nader got his start?
I beg to differ stupid drivers killed 800 people. the tires were only the trigger to very poor decision making.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
WOW and thanks for saying what I've been wanting to say. PT1 is a continual GM thread [censored] and offers nothing to intelligent conversations.
Otherwise, I'm staying out of this fight. I hope Toyota gets their problems worked out as soon as possible and no further loss of life is seen.
Staying out means not posting this childish response. You guys need to quit stalking anyone who says anything negative about GM. This thread is about a vehicle I actually own. Not about the garbage GM vehicles I used to own. So butt out if you have nothing intelligent to contribute. This is about a safety issue NOT about shoddy workmanship which are two very different topics. The OP author quotes this as "Toyotas Firestone recall". But Toyotas CEO is in front of it instead of the Ford response which was totally unethical and unacceptable. This is FACT whether you like it or not. Sorry.
WOW and thanks for saying what I've been wanting to say. PT1 is a continual GM thread [censored] and offers nothing to intelligent conversations.
Otherwise, I'm staying out of this fight. I hope Toyota gets their problems worked out as soon as possible and no further loss of life is seen.
Staying out means not posting this childish response. You guys need to quit stalking anyone who says anything negative about GM. This thread is about a vehicle I actually own. Not about the garbage GM vehicles I used to own. So butt out if you have nothing intelligent to contribute. This is about a safety issue NOT about shoddy workmanship which are two very different topics. The OP author quotes this as "Toyotas Firestone recall". But Toyotas CEO is in front of it instead of the Ford response which was totally unethical and unacceptable. This is FACT whether you like it or not. Sorry.
What does otherwise mean?
Sorry my childish response to your childish post upset your delicate sensibilities.
Now on with your whining.......
Sorry my childish response to your childish post upset your delicate sensibilities.
Now on with your whining.......
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Dualie
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
Notice the CEO from Toyota publically apologized to the family.If it were a GM they would deny it and hide behind some lawyers skirt. The Ford Firestone issue killed almost 800 people before they even admitted it was an issue. Remember how Ralph Nader got his start?
I beg to differ stupid drivers killed 800 people. the tires were only the trigger to very poor decision making.
The Firestone tires were of very marginal quality and never tested by Ford to be validated on the Explorer. The Goodyear tire that Ford rejected for $.25 per tire would not have failed under those circumstances. There is literally thousands of pages of independent testing regarding the subject. The owners of the vehicles in most cases ran them underinflated but proper vehicle testing in desert conditions would have failed the validation. But at that time Nassar was cutting expenses as he wanted to make Ford "like GE". He admired Jack Welch's method of managing General Electric and was envious of how GE stock was skyrocketing in the 1990's. So he tried to take a highly capital intensive engineering driven auto company and run it the same way. Didn't work and problems like the Explorer tire issue slipped between the cracks. IIRC there were over 100 people killed in Explorers before Ford QA even knew about it.
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
Notice the CEO from Toyota publically apologized to the family.If it were a GM they would deny it and hide behind some lawyers skirt. The Ford Firestone issue killed almost 800 people before they even admitted it was an issue. Remember how Ralph Nader got his start?
I beg to differ stupid drivers killed 800 people. the tires were only the trigger to very poor decision making.
The Firestone tires were of very marginal quality and never tested by Ford to be validated on the Explorer. The Goodyear tire that Ford rejected for $.25 per tire would not have failed under those circumstances. There is literally thousands of pages of independent testing regarding the subject. The owners of the vehicles in most cases ran them underinflated but proper vehicle testing in desert conditions would have failed the validation. But at that time Nassar was cutting expenses as he wanted to make Ford "like GE". He admired Jack Welch's method of managing General Electric and was envious of how GE stock was skyrocketing in the 1990's. So he tried to take a highly capital intensive engineering driven auto company and run it the same way. Didn't work and problems like the Explorer tire issue slipped between the cracks. IIRC there were over 100 people killed in Explorers before Ford QA even knew about it.
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
PT1
I'm not defending GM here, however you are really getting way off topic, you can be the "bigger man" by just letting go of the subject in this thread. If you want to GM bash start another thread please, thanks.
Bill.
Bill: Look at the whole thread....I didn't start any attacks.The GM employees did.
PT1
I'm not defending GM here, however you are really getting way off topic, you can be the "bigger man" by just letting go of the subject in this thread. If you want to GM bash start another thread please, thanks.
Bill.
Bill: Look at the whole thread....I didn't start any attacks.The GM employees did.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
see
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
see
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
PT1
I'm not defending GM here, however you are really getting way off topic, you can be the "bigger man" by just letting go of the subject in this thread. If you want to GM bash start another thread please, thanks.
Bill.
Bill: Look at the whole thread....I didn't start any attacks.The GM employees did.
Another of your many misrepresentations of the facts.
This thread was completely clear of any bashing until you came along with your big three comment....lol....That is fact, as you like to say. Even when you are clearly wrong and stating nothing more than opinion. Or something that sounds like it was pulled from a plaintiffs brief....lol
Originally Posted By: Vizzy
PT1
I'm not defending GM here, however you are really getting way off topic, you can be the "bigger man" by just letting go of the subject in this thread. If you want to GM bash start another thread please, thanks.
Bill.
Bill: Look at the whole thread....I didn't start any attacks.The GM employees did.
Another of your many misrepresentations of the facts.
This thread was completely clear of any bashing until you came along with your big three comment....lol....That is fact, as you like to say. Even when you are clearly wrong and stating nothing more than opinion. Or something that sounds like it was pulled from a plaintiffs brief....lol
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
just in case you missed it the first time
Notice above GM person doesn't flame Toyota...now if it was a GM PT1 and his croonies would be all over it!
just in case you missed it the first time
- Status
