Toyota, why are you absent from the EV races?

[Torrid]

In some circumstances Hybrids currently have the advantage. Toyota excels here.

For shorter drives (150 miles/day or less) where the owner has a place to park that can be equipped with a 240 Volt outlet, EVs have the advantage. Toyota is not in this game - or so they say. But then again they suddenly appeared with the first Hybrids too (after at least a decade of development).

That's the thing. 95% fall into the less than 150 miles a day. It's just whether someone can justify that cost for an electric vehicle and they actually want one. Prius and other hybrids are very popular for Uber/Lyft here and I'm sure everywhere for a reason. They don't have to stop or worry about charging and still see a boost in efficiency. I don't think I would want to go electric for that, but I wouldn't want to do that for work anyway.

We're still early in this electric car thing anyway. Toyota doesn't have to be all in it yet. They may have enough going that if the mandates actually stick for 2035 that they pull out of the market entirely. Is that likely? Probably not, we've got 12 years to get there and I very much doubt that mandate sticks.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I wonder who is herding the sheep into wanting EVs ? I like the option but the sheeple are being herded.

Do you have to make your point by insulting people?
Actually, I am not sure I understand what your point is.

 

[justalubetech]

I think hybrids are the way to go currently until rapid chargers etc become more readily available.

I get to somewhat regularly drive a new Honda Insight from work and that thing is great for commuting, 100 miles a day and the fuel level doesn't come off full for a couple of days.

 

[edyvw]

"Wait till the big boys get in..."
Where have I heard that before?
Again, I love Toyota, and competition is good for the customer.
I wish them well. But get crackin!

i am not sure why you have “big boys” in quotations? Bcs. they are big boys compared to Tesla.
20% price drop, ridiculous insurance issues, I would say, big boys know from experience that trend lasts only so long.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think hybrids are the way to go currently until rapid chargers etc become more readily available.

I get to somewhat regularly drive a new Honda Insight from work and that thing is great for commuting, 100 miles a day and the fuel level doesn't come off full for a couple of days.

Agree, hybrids are great, especially in my neck of the woods where gas is stinkin expensive! People trying to make ends meet and have to shove $80 into their Odyssey.

 

[JeffKeryk]

i am not sure why you have “big boys” in quotations? Bcs. they are big boys compared to Tesla.
20% price drop, ridiculous insurance issues, I would say, big boys know from experience that trend lasts only so long.

"Big boys" refers to the line many have used regarding Tesla. Before that, it was "Tesla would be belly up any day now" and "Teslas are for rich California granola heads." When those petered out, the "wait till the big boys get in" stuff started. Still waiting...

I am not sure what you mean by "trend"? Exactly what trend are you referring to? Thanks in advance.

 

[edyvw]

"Big boys" refers to the line many have used regarding Tesla. Before that, it was "Tesla would be belly up any day now" and "Teslas are for rich California granola heads." When those petered out, the "wait till the big boys get in" stuff started. Still waiting...

I am not sure what you mean by "trend"?

Tesla is trend. People want it bcs. Joneses have it next door.
That is gone.

And yes, big boys are still, big boys, compared to Tesla.

And yes, it is for rich people.

 

[Torrid]

i am not sure why you have “big boys” in quotations? Bcs. they are big boys compared to Tesla.
20% price drop, ridiculous insurance issues, I would say, big boys know from experience that trend lasts only so long.

?

What?

GM and Ford are moving in on this and in big numbers. Tesla dropped prices on 3 models that fall in line with the tax credit and have already announced small price increases for when it ends. It was a power play to put Teslas in driveway. It's been a "trend" for 10 years now. Kind of a cynical way of looking at it. Why are so many people upset at other options?

 

[Torrid]

Tesla is trend. People want it bcs. Joneses have it next door.
That is gone.

And yes, big boys are still, big boys, compared to Tesla.

And yes, it is for rich people.

Thank you for calling me rich. I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[edyvw]

?

What?

GM and Ford are moving in on this and in big numbers. Tesla dropped prices on 3 models that fall in line with the tax credit and have already announced small price increases for when it ends. It was a power play to put Teslas in driveway. It's been a "trend" for 10 years now. Kind of a cynical way of looking at it. Why are so many people upset at other options?

They are, but what is their other business?
BMW is going big on EV, yet they can’t make enough PHEV.
These companies can afford to play in ICE, EV, PHEV, hybrid segments. Tesla can play only in one.

 

[edyvw]

Thank you for calling me rich. I'll take that as a compliment.

What else do you have other than Tesla? Average family of four cannot afford Tesla as sole means of transportation!

 

[Torrid]

What else do you have other than Tesla? Average family of four cannot afford Tesla as sole means of transportation!

My signature is visible. I also have a GTI only because we need two cars. How expensive do you think a Tesla is? It was $48k. That's pretty average for a new car these days.

Not sure how a Tesla couldn't be a sole means of transportation. Eventually both cars will likely be electric. I do like my GTI though.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Tesla is trend. People want it bcs. Joneses have it next door.
That is gone.

And yes, big boys are still, big boys, compared to Tesla.

And yes, it is for rich people.

Can you substantiate your claims? The numbers certainly don't bear them out.
In 2022 the Model Y was the 4th biggest seller in the world by units sold, of any kind. It very well be the #1 this year or next.
The Model Y was #1 in revenue.
The Model 3 was number 11 in units sold, I believe.
If anything, that's quite a trend; a growing trend.

Toyota sells about 8 times more vehicles than Tesla. Yet their overall profitability is close. By valuation Tesla is bigger than the next 5 car companies combined.

Rich people? That's been true. But it is changing. Tesla continues to gain market share in the overall vehicle market. With the lowered prices and upcoming vehicles, the trend you speak of appears to be headed in an upward direction.

That's the numbers. Trending up.

 

[edyvw]

My signature is visible. I also have a GTI only because we need two cars. How expensive do you think a Tesla is? It was $48k. That's pretty average for a new car these days.

Not sure how a Tesla couldn't be a sole means of transportation. Eventually both cars will likely be electric. I do like my GTI though.

If you have 2-3 kids and you would like to take them out of house to see anything, you need other vehicles.
Unless you fly. But then, family of 4-5 and airplane tickets etc. put you in different income bracket.
We for example make more than average Americans, yet, prospect of flying for example every year twice to places we want to see, would be stretch. Hence, Atlas.
Two other cars are paid off. Both bought used.
But, most Americans have one family hauler and one car big enough for four around town and some.
Then electricity cost, insurance, etc. you get a picture.

 

[edyvw]

Can you substantiate your claims? The numbers certainly don't bear them out.
In 2022 the Model Y was the 4th biggest seller in the world by units sold, of any kind. It very well be the #1 this year or next.
The Model Y was #1 in revenue.
The Model S was number 11 in units sold, I believe.
If anything, that's quite a trend; a growing trend.

Toyota sells about 8 times more vehicles than Tesla. Yet their overall profitability is close. By valuation Tesla is bigger than the next 5 car companies combined.

Rich people? That's been true. But it is changing. Tesla continues to gain market share in the overall vehicle market. With the lowered prices and upcoming vehicles, the trend you speak of appears to be headed in an upward direction.

That's the numbers. Trending up.

Toyota could rack up same profits with Tesla quality.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Toyota could rack up same profits with Tesla quality.

That's your style. When the facts are on the table you turn to nonsense.
I try and respect your knowledge, but find your reasoning lacking.
That is hugely disappointing to me because I believe you have a lot to offer.

 

[andrew_j]

Toyota is actively developing them and/or figuring out who to buy to gain tech. They just are not announcing to market.

 

[Torrid]

If you have 2-3 kids and you would like to take them out of house to see anything, you need other vehicles.
Unless you fly. But then, family of 4-5 and airplane tickets etc. put you in different income bracket.
We for example make more than average Americans, yet, prospect of flying for example every year twice to places we want to see, would be stretch. Hence, Atlas.
Two other cars are paid off. Both bought used.
But, most Americans have one family hauler and one car big enough for four around town and some.
Then electricity cost, insurance, etc. you get a picture.

I have two kids. I'm not always in town because of my job which is why we need two vehicles. I don't get to fly. My vacation allotment is sparse and I'm on call 6 days a week. You can probably infer from that I am not paid peanuts. The family hauler is the Tesla. The GTI is the car I take for work most times. I've had bigger, flashier vehicles in the past but I don't really see the point in that. I'm more about the driving experience than anything else and landing on these two seemed a much more affordable selection. I love cars, I just refuse to overpay for the experience, though the experience of the drive is very important. The electricity cost to drive is cheap. Much cheaper even than the GTI's fuel. It's not even close. Yes it's possible to buy a very expensive Tesla. That's not what we did. At the end of the day regardless of what I make I can't see having it wrapped up in a depreciating asset and there's a ton of excellent driving experiences well under $100k anyway, or in my case under $50k that fit a family of 4.

 

[Soft Cars]

I would've rather seen alcohol based fuels being developed. Alcohol can be made from the waste of bacteria and it's easy to separate from water.

 

[skyactiv]

Corolla Hybrid: summer city country mix and a pic high speed freeway driving in cold weather. Wife that did some modeling eons ago in the passenger seat.