Toyota switching gears?

[alarmguy]

English? You know how much electricity it takes to make Hydrogen? Might want to look into that. Between transportation of hydrogen, storing, and manufacturer it uses more energy than just plugging in an EV.

Hydrogen is cool stuff, but it's going to need a lot of development. Probably would be better to make a few more electric cars than just that BZ4X or whatever it's called while they work on it.

At one time, no one would have imagined Lithium Batteries
To say something can not be done is tunnel vision. Clearly one must know we are in no position what so ever to replace fossil fuel vehicles with electric, unless an alternative like H2.
BEVs will fill a void for a certain percentage of the population. There is no way on earth the majority will give up the convenience of gasoline and there is no way on earth the electric grid can replace gasoline.

I mean, it's not even a discussion. Just use the most progressive state in the USA which is California. They have 20,000,000 gasoline vehicles on the road> how is the grid going to replace that when California didnt even have enough electricity last year to reliably power peoples TV sets in their homes? Answer please
California is due to shut down its only clean source of 24 hour energy, its ONE nuclear power plant. Meanwhile over 60% of its energy comes from burning the very fossil fuels its declared war on. But this war is only to control the people, void of any reality.

It's laughable but this is human nature, the human is lead by a small minority of people, the others followers, unable to reason.

 

[alarmguy]

Toyoda was not asked to resign, he stepped down as CEO to assume the chairman of the board position that was open after his father passed away February 14th, plus, he is getting up-there in age and wanted to retire. He is still running the entire show, just not the day-to-day operations. Sato just reaffirmed Toyota's long-term corporate policy.
Having said that, I'm not convinced that hydrogen is practical for consumer passenger vehicle use. IMO the future of hydrogen is with long haul trucks, busses, construction equipment, ships, and locomotives (battery power will never be practical for these applications). Even then, this will be way off in the future, a long time after I am gone.

Your post makes too much sense. Im not even commenting on the negative posts about Toyota, gosh some comments in here are almost like some kind of jealousy, worlds most successful car company produces 10 MILLION cars a year and people in here are posting about stuff they know nothing about.

As far as h2 its ok to have an opinion that you and others dont think its practical on a consumer side. Heck I dont know either.
We both know that the current lithium battery EV is just as impractical. But something has to get us there so all technologies must be tried IF and only IF you are one to care about the anti fossil fuel agenda. Let's face it, since mankind walked the earth, the masses always followed anything that they could be convinced of, no matter how it affected their livelihood.

 

[demarpaint]

Your post makes too much sense. Im not even commenting on the negative posts about Toyota, gosh some comments in here are almost like some kind of jealousy, worlds most successful car company produces 10 MILLION cars a year and people in here are posting about stuff they know nothing about.

As far as h2 its ok to have an opinion that you and others dont think its practical on a consumer side. Heck I dont know either.
We both know that the current lithium battery EV is just as impractical. But something has to get us there so all technologies must be tried IF and only IF you are one to care about the anti fossil fuel agenda. Let's face it, since mankind walked the earth, the masses always followed anything that they could be convinced of, no matter how it affected their livelihood.

Toyota didn't get to where they are being stupid. This should be interesting in how it plays out.

 

[alarmguy]

Toyota didn't get to where they are being stupid. This should be interesting in how it plays out.

Agree, They already stated production of 1.5 Million EV's a year starting in 2026
We know that will happen because Toyota's allegiance is to its shareholders, they are not going to ruin their reputation by making claims and predictions that they do not see feasible.
Yeah, I almost wish I could fast forward to 2030 to see what the vehicle landscape looks like but Im at an age now that I rather slow up the clock! *LOL*

 

[UncleDave]

Meanwhile, as basically the only serious EV maker, Tesla scored 2 very unique entries in the top 20.
#9. Tesla Y. A very unique luxury vehicle, the only luxury toy in the top 20. All other 18 ICE vehicles are pragmatic trucks, SUVs, and cars in the top 20, other than the Tesla 3 in at #15. More about fashion than anything IMO, subsidized toys for the rich.
#15. Tesla 3

" Subsidized toys for the rich" Only if the numbers don't actually matter.

GM and Ford get waay more subsidy, sadly.

The 3 can be had for 40K and the Y for 50K.

According to KBB the Average new car price is over 49500.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-tops-49500/

 

[dogememe]

I agree that we need more nuclear plants if we’re going to go the EV direction. Otherwise it’s just not possible.

Now, as for Toyota, the BZ4X is NOT competitive and is overpriced. I don’t doubt they need to price it that way, like we all know Ford lost $3B on EVs, but except for the few people that will buy it just because it’s a Toyota, that thing is already dead in the water. With EVs the traditional reliability of Toyota doesn’t really matter. Even the first gen Nissan Leafs are incredibly reliable except for battery degradation.

 

[demarpaint]

Agree, They already stated production of 1.5 Million EV's a year starting in 2026
We know that will happen because Toyota's allegiance is to its shareholders, they are not going to ruin their reputation by making claims and predictions that they do not see feasible.
Yeah, I almost wish I could fast forward to 2030 to see what the vehicle landscape looks like but Im at an age now that I rather slow up the clock! *LOL*

I'd love to see them eat Tesla's lunch. I think in time they can and will make a better product, nicer looking, and a of a much higher quality. And eat Tesla's lunch in the process.

 

[Drew7a]

I thought Toyota was going the Hydrogen Combustion engine route or H2?

 

[UncleDave]

I agree that we need more nuclear plants if we’re going to go the EV direction. Otherwise it’s just not possible.

Now, as for Toyota, the BZ4X is NOT competitive and is overpriced. I don’t doubt they need to price it that way, like we all know Ford lost $3B on EVs, but except for the few people that will buy it just because it’s a Toyota, that thing is already dead in the water. With EVs the traditional reliability of Toyota doesn’t really matter. Even the first gen Nissan Leafs are incredibly reliable except for battery degradation.

Toyotas first shot into the market went backward in time over a decade.

Somehow it managed to be slower than leaf over a 1000KM journey.

 

[PimTac]

I thought Toyota was going the Hydrogen Combustion engine route or H2?

Toyota is going in multiple directions. They are not hanging their hat on any one technology.

 

[demarpaint]

Toyota is going in multiple directions. They are not hanging their hat on any one technology.

And that's why they're so successful.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Your post makes too much sense. Im not even commenting on the negative posts about Toyota, gosh some comments in here are almost like some kind of jealousy, worlds most successful car company produces 10 MILLION cars a year and people in here are posting about stuff they know nothing about.

As far as h2 its ok to have an opinion that you and others dont think its practical on a consumer side. Heck I dont know either.
We both know that the current lithium battery EV is just as impractical. But something has to get us there so all technologies must be tried IF and only IF you are one to care about the anti fossil fuel agenda. Let's face it, since mankind walked the earth, the masses always followed anything that they could be convinced of, no matter how it affected their livelihood.

Negative posts? Current news can be taken different ways, I guess. Toyota has proven itself; I own 2 myself.
Toyota has had a rough Q1 and their TNGA strategy is not working as compared to the competition.
New CEO Sato is more invested in EVs than his predecessor, perhaps more for business than philosophical reasons.
He will not leave hybrids and why should he. Toyota makes the best hybrids. Our RX450h gets better mileage than our Acura TSX 4 banger. At least that what wifet sez...
Sato recognizes Toyota needs a dedicated EV platform. The latest is they plan to have 10 new electric models on the market and sell 1.5 million globally by 2026. Quite a change from doubting the viability of mass market EV business.
From Bloomberg:
"Building a dedicated EV production platform from scratch while navigating lingering pandemic measures, supply chain snags and semiconductor shortages is top priority for Toyota as Sato looks to shepherd the Japanese carmaker, which expects to produce as many as 10.6 million cars this year, into a new age of electrification and intelligent vehicles."

I wish them well and I am sure CEO Sato will lead his company to even greater heights. I am even looking at the new Prius plug in, but the dealers will screw the public, because they can.

Google Toyota news to get the news, which is emerging as we speak.

 

[Torrid]

At one time, no one would have imagined Lithium Batteries
To say something can not be done is tunnel vision. Clearly one must know we are in no position what so ever to replace fossil fuel vehicles with electric, unless an alternative like H2.
BEVs will fill a void for a certain percentage of the population. There is no way on earth the majority will give up the convenience of gasoline and there is no way on earth the electric grid can replace gasoline.

I mean, it's not even a discussion. Just use the most progressive state in the USA which is California. They have 20,000,000 gasoline vehicles on the road> how is the grid going to replace that when California didnt even have enough electricity last year to reliably power peoples TV sets in their homes? Answer please
California is due to shut down its only clean source of 24 hour energy, its ONE nuclear power plant. Meanwhile over 60% of its energy comes from burning the very fossil fuels its declared war on. But this war is only to control the people, void of any reality.

It's laughable but this is human nature, the human is lead by a small minority of people, the others followers, unable to reason.

I don't disagree with that. I want to see hydrogen work. The only reason why EVs have worked is because it just needs electricity, so charging stations have popped up. If we could get hydrogen less than 900 miles between stations it might work. EVs were laughed at because you couldn't drive them out of state, now you can. Problem is if you have a hydrogen car anywhere but a certain section of California or one spot in Canada, you can't fuel it. If it was as easy to use as gas or EV, I'd consider one. Toyota won't even sell the Mirai here because I can't fuel it.

Basically hydrogen is more complicated to supply than gasoline and would require a similar network as gas stations with completely differently designed hardware.

Again for the 11ty-billionth time I'm not advocating replacing every petrol powered car on the road. I think the problem California has is Los Angeles and any major metro area in the state. They have very high adoption of EVs and the population is huge which makes demand extremely high in a very short distance. They've had power issues since before EVs were a popular option. I fail to see why so many people love to live on top of each other. I live in a small town for a reason. I used to live in Phoenix and in Las Vegas and in the grand scheme of things those are fairly small major cities in the US. It taught me that I wanted to live no where near a largely populated city.

 

[DirectRejection]

Electric vehicles need such materials as copper, lithium and nickel. It is a dead end due to coming scarcity. Gimme ICE.

 

[CharBaby]

Ask a GM shareholder vs a Ford shareholder what matters more to them; that GM makes more money selling more trucks, or that Ford can claim "best selling truck"?

I don’t know any GM or Ford shareholders. Do you know where I might find them in order to ask them what matters?

Just having fun with ya!
CB

 

[4WD]

I think too that GM wouldn't be quick to tell those that don't know they're the same truck "Hey, look at this rehashed thing with another badge on it. Our giant conglomeration actually sells more trucks!" It doesn't sound like a good look the way I'm picturing it.

All three of those folks …?

 

[PandaBear]

Electric vehicles need such materials as copper, lithium and nickel. It is a dead end due to coming scarcity. Gimme ICE.

First off, copper for EV isn't too much compare to other precious metal needed for say, home and office per person per year. The copper inside an EV gets recycled when they are done as they are highly valued, just like lead acid battery and the platinum in an ice car's cat.

Nickel isn't a big deal as we use them in other stuff like stainless steel, they aren't "rare" or "dirty". Lithium is a bit of a problem but the biggest one is cobalt right now. LFP battery may help that a bit.

If you really think these are the problem then these cars will get smaller over time, slower with less HP and torque so they can use less of them each, just like if gas and metals are expensive people will pay less and buy a Corolla instead of a Suburban, for example.

I think the future of EV is outside US. Many countries can't afford to keep buying oil if they aren't allies of US, or they have to import oil from places they don't want to, while they have lots of coal and nuke.

 

[DirectRejection]

First off, copper for EV isn't too much compare to other precious metal needed for say, home and office per person per year. The copper inside an EV gets recycled when they are done as they are highly valued, just like lead acid battery and the platinum in an ice car's cat.

Nickel isn't a big deal as we use them in other stuff like stainless steel, they aren't "rare" or "dirty". Lithium is a bit of a problem but the biggest one is cobalt right now. LFP battery may help that a bit.

If you really think these are the problem then these cars will get smaller over time, slower with less HP and torque so they can use less of them each, just like if gas and metals are expensive people will pay less and buy a Corolla instead of a Suburban, for example.

I think the future of EV is outside US. Many countries can't afford to keep buying oil if they aren't allies of US, or they have to import oil from places they don't want to, while they have lots of coal and nuke.

My source is Peter Zeihan.

 

[nthach]

I got banned from a subreddit for sparking a fight with a Toyota fanboi over why I think hydrogen is a mistake beyond buses and trucks(Cummins is betting big on hydrogen - they want to keep their monopoly status in public transit and remain a 2nd powertrain option in trucking besides Daimler/Navistar(Traton, which is VW Truck & Bus)/Volvo Truck & Bus/PACCAR) and it’s more of a protectionist move to keep Toyota from becoming the next Sony/Panasonic/Nissan.

I think it’s too little too late for Toyota - who is known to rest on their laurels. However, the US and Southeast Asia/Australia are important Toyota markets, and those places(outside of CA/OR/WA/NY/PA) aren’t electrifying to the same rate as Europe or China.

 

[nthach]

English? You know how much electricity it takes to make Hydrogen? Might want to look into that. Between transportation of hydrogen, storing, and manufacturer it uses more energy than just plugging in an EV.

Hydrogen is cool stuff, but it's going to need a lot of development. Probably would be better to make a few more electric cars than just that BZ4X or whatever it's called while they work on it.

IMHO, Toyota should give up on hydrogen. Sell the IP to Cummins or Ballard. Gaseous fuels were a flop in the consumer market - GM and Honda tried to sell a CNG Lumina/Malibu and Civic to the public. Only the GSA and California’s DGS bought them.

A local transit agency spent almost $10 million to install H2 infrastructure at just one bus yard. That’s including LH2 storage, cyrogenic pumps, vaporizers and CH2 storage. A majority of it is tricked in from one of the major gas suppliers.