Toyota Resale Values Tank

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


The f450 is not EVEN CLOSE to the same class as the 1/2-3/4 ton. Who cares what the f450 can do?
We're talking pickup trucks here.


1. The F-450 is a pick-up.
2. The F-450 is just an upgraded F-350.
3. The F-350 still has a 18,800lb towing capacity, the F-250 is 16,900lbs.


Quote:
What i have gathered from your twisted up responses is the diesel is superior in low end grunt and pulling power. But lacks in the performance dept? It's heavier, blah blah, blah.
It's a [censored] pickup truck for [censored] sakes. It's drivin as a grocery getter for some, trips to homedepot, and then tows on occasion. What a waste of a 4 ton oil burner.


You don't get it. A VERY high percentage of diesel pick-ups are used for REAL work; those who want to tool around town typically get the 1/2-ton. That's another reason the comparison is ridiculous.

Quote:
Who cares about physics?


Everybody except you, because it doesn't support your ludicrous point.

Quote:
If the truck is NOT PROPERLY designed for it's weight and capabilities to stop for a child in the road with 30' to do it in. Why have it?


It is. It is just heavier. Put an extra 2,000lbs behind your Tundra and watch its stopping distance increase. It is the TOTAL WEIGHT of the package here. When you have a heavier frame, engine and transmission, the truck is going to WEIGH MORE, this is COMMON SENSE!

Quote:
If it rides like a tank, why have it?
If it handles like a tank, why have it?
If it's hard on front end parts, why have it?
If a teeny tiny gasser can outperform it, why have it?
If it costs more to purchase and to operate, why have it?


To everything except your gasser comment, which is completely subjective, and far from true, the answer is because it will tow 24,000+lbs and the gasoline truck will not.

Quote:
Buy a diesel pickup for towing duty only? Whatever.

Wow ovekill, i'd say you're going nuts here. Calm down now; it'll be alright.

Sexuall favors? Yeah, the 3" tailpipe is just about the right size. Give me a break. Now who's sounding like a 4 yr old?






Yes, it is very frustrating trying to explain something so basic to somebody who simply cannot get it. I'd likely have better luck trying to train my Newfoundland how to fly.

So on that note, I'm done with this thread. Good luck with your "gasser that is better than a diesel", I'm out.

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Oh yea, it's also been converted to R134a, which, if you know anything, you know it's harder on AC compressors than R12 was.
I use Duracool refridgerant in my truck, far lower operating pressure on the compressor and cools better!

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Who would be stupid enough to hook up to each other and tug away?


Where did I say that?

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


Yeah, consumer reports edition 07. I got my flame suit on now.


They obviously know SFA about diesels.

Quote:
Why don't you define performance for me then? Stopping, 0-60, handling, 1/4 mile times, towing and stopping 60-0.


Other than the towing, the others are about par for the course if we were comparing sports cars.

For Trucks on the other hand, at least for me it is:

1. How much weight will it realistically pull. What is its rated towing capacity? By realistic I mean by being able to properly merge into traffic and accelerate at a reasonable rate. I don't care if one truck is a few 10ths of a second faster or slower, this isn't a drag-race.

2. How well will it stop the load? What kind of braking assist is offered on the truck for stopping the trailer? Is it adjustable?

3. What kind of fuel mileage does it get loaded and unloaded?

4. How durable is the powertrain? How much testing has gone into it? What kind of reliability has it been PROVEN to have under HEAVY DUTY usage?

5. How much abuse will it take. How strong is the box, how strong is the frame? What does it take to BREAK IT?


Quote:
The 4.7 was SOMEWHAT close to your 5.4 performance wise, i owned one and for their small displacement and horrible hp/tq curve, they faired very well against the competition back then.



My uncle owns one, I find it somewhat gutless. But the truck is nice otherwise, and decent on fuel, that's the gen that reminds me a LOT of the F-150......


Again, diesels were the only trucks they could find with the rated tow capacity etc..

#1--tow capacity is 10,300 for the tundra w/ a 16000 GCVW rating.
NO problem accelerating into traffic whatsoever for me. Not necessarily a drag race that's for sure. But you do want it to get out of it's own way.

#2--Stopping the load is no problem providing the P-3 brake controller is set up properly. The P-3 is top of the line.

3--I get 9-11 loaded and 16-20 unloaded. It's no grocery getter, with a 13 mpg rated city mileage.

4--Durable? 6-speed auto w/ 2 OD gears giving you basically almost a 8 speed with TC lock/unlock. Oh, it has a huge thermostatically controlled trans cooler in front of the radiator. Reliability under heavy usage is yet to be determined, but i'm fairly confident with how well i take care of stuff.

5--Abuse. Over the years with my toyota's, they have survived thousands and thousands of hard miles quite nicely. I'm not going to try and brake it though.

Yeah, but have you ever been alone with it to fully test it out? You surely wouldn't REALLY drive it with your uncle in the car.

Agreed on this with the 1st gen tundra's. Quite similiar in looks to the f150.

Say what you want about the test...not apples for apples, or the tundra's not a 3/4 ton, it's a gasser whatever. But the fact of the matter is, the tundra outperformed it's counterparts. Which is quite impressive to me, considering the circumstances.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Who would be stupid enough to hook up to each other and tug away?


Where did I say that?


YOur tundra frame will break in half with that pull off nonsense comment.

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Who would be stupid enough to hook up to each other and tug away?


Where did I say that?


YOur tundra frame will break in half with that pull off nonsense comment.


Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
I'll be getting my chance at a pulloff with my cousin's 08 dummax pretty soon. So i'll be sure to update on it.


I don't think getting your frame torn in half will be covered under the warranty...


I don't see where it says you were going to pull off against each other, but I'm sure it would be amusing!

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


The f450 is not EVEN CLOSE to the same class as the 1/2-3/4 ton. Who cares what the f450 can do?
We're talking pickup trucks here.


1. The F-450 is a pick-up.
2. The F-450 is just an upgraded F-350.
3. The F-350 still has a 18,800lb towing capacity, the F-250 is 16,900lbs.


Quote:
What i have gathered from your twisted up responses is the diesel is superior in low end grunt and pulling power. But lacks in the performance dept? It's heavier, blah blah, blah.
It's a [censored] pickup truck for [censored] sakes. It's drivin as a grocery getter for some, trips to homedepot, and then tows on occasion. What a waste of a 4 ton oil burner.


You don't get it. A VERY high percentage of diesel pick-ups are used for REAL work; those who want to tool around town typically get the 1/2-ton. That's another reason the comparison is ridiculous.

Quote:
Who cares about physics?


Everybody except you, because it doesn't support your ludicrous point.

Quote:
If the truck is NOT PROPERLY designed for it's weight and capabilities to stop for a child in the road with 30' to do it in. Why have it?


It is. It is just heavier. Put an extra 2,000lbs behind your Tundra and watch its stopping distance increase. It is the TOTAL WEIGHT of the package here. When you have a heavier frame, engine and transmission, the truck is going to WEIGH MORE, this is COMMON SENSE!

Quote:
If it rides like a tank, why have it?
If it handles like a tank, why have it?
If it's hard on front end parts, why have it?
If a teeny tiny gasser can outperform it, why have it?
If it costs more to purchase and to operate, why have it?


To everything except your gasser comment, which is completely subjective, and far from true, the answer is because it will tow 24,000+lbs and the gasoline truck will not.

Quote:
Buy a diesel pickup for towing duty only? Whatever.

Wow ovekill, i'd say you're going nuts here. Calm down now; it'll be alright.

Sexuall favors? Yeah, the 3" tailpipe is just about the right size. Give me a break. Now who's sounding like a 4 yr old?






Yes, it is very frustrating trying to explain something so basic to somebody who simply cannot get it. I'd likely have better luck trying to train my Newfoundland how to fly.

So on that note, I'm done with this thread. Good luck with your "gasser that is better than a diesel", I'm out.



I get it completely, most people (including myself) want a good all around truck. Not just a bone jarring work truck.

My point is not ludicrous, simply stating the obvious results. Everyone knows that tows substantial weight, the tow vehicle must have good braking. The tundra with it's 14" rotors & 4 piston calipers has it. Why don't the larger, heavier, more tow capacity trucks have it? Somebody missed the ball there.

Of course, all trucks will take longer to stop with 2k in it. But the point here is, the tundra stopped as much as 40' shorter than the competition. I think the PSD was 40' longer if i remember correctly. This may have been when they were towing 7500 lbs in the rain trying to stop.

What? the gasser DID outperform the diesels. YOu really ought to read the article; it's pretty interesting.
I don't want nor need my truck to tow 20k lbs. Only 10-11k, that's it.

YOu're really having a hard time with this. Just face it; it's all in black and white in the article.

I don't beleive i've said it's BETTER, i have said it outperformed the others. That of which, i have been referring to this particular article all along.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Who would be stupid enough to hook up to each other and tug away?


Where did I say that?


YOur tundra frame will break in half with that pull off nonsense comment.


Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
I'll be getting my chance at a pulloff with my cousin's 08 dummax pretty soon. So i'll be sure to update on it.


I don't think getting your frame torn in half will be covered under the warranty...


I don't see where it says you were going to pull off against each other, but I'm sure it would be amusing!


I know; exactly.

You said: I don't think getting your frame torn in half will be covered under the warranty......

Did you not?

Pulloff should have been re-worded to say pulling contest via fifth wheels.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas

Again, diesels were the only trucks they could find with the rated tow capacity etc..

#1--tow capacity is 10,300 for the tundra...



I haven't read the comparo you guys have been referring to and don't really want to enter into the "performance" debate but what class of truck where they looking at where they couldn't find gasoline competitors with ~10k lb towing capacities? We've got a 1999 3/4 ton Suburban (gasoline big block) with a 10k lb towing capacity.

Or am I misunderstanding the statement?

 

[mstrjon32]

Alright, well that's not what I meant. I had a vision of you trying to pull 20,000 lbs. and snapping the frame in half.

I suspect that if you tied a cable between two trucks it would just be a bunch of tire spinning.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas

Again, diesels were the only trucks they could find with the rated tow capacity etc..

#1--tow capacity is 10,300 for the tundra...



I haven't read the comparo you guys have been referring to and don't really want to enter into the "performance" debate but what class of truck where they looking at where they couldn't find gasoline competitors with ~10k lb towing capacities? We've got a 1999 3/4 ton Suburban (gasoline big block) with a 10k lb towing capacity.

Or am I misunderstanding the statement?


Consumer reports shootout back in 07. At the time, they could not find other gasser's equipped to tow the 7500 lbs at the time for their testing.

 

[mstrjon32]

I have to say, my dad has a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee that is rated at 6,500 pounds towing capacity with its 235hp gas engine and unibody frame. I find it unlikely that they couldn't find another gas-powered, body-on-frame truck that couldn't tow 7,500 pounds if a Jeep can tow 6,500.

Maybe what happened is they couldn't find any other trucks within arm's reach that could tow 7,500 pounds?

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


Consumer reports shootout back in 07. At the time, they could not find other gasser's equipped to tow the 7500 lbs at the time for their testing.


Couldn't find as in they weren't on the market or no actual trucks were available for testing? From a brief online search it looks like there were gasoline trucks with >10k lb towing capacities available, and I highly doubt the towing capacities of the gasoline trucks have gone down since 1999 (feel free to prove me wrong).

Since we're talking about diesels I'm assuming it wasn't limited to 1/2 ton trucks, and I assume a price ceiling wasn't the issue.

So were they just not able to scrounge up some gas trucks for the test?

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
I have to say, my dad has a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee that is rated at 6,500 pounds towing capacity with its 235hp gas engine and unibody frame. I find it unlikely that they couldn't find another gas-powered, body-on-frame truck that couldn't tow 7,500 pounds if a Jeep can tow 6,500.

Maybe what happened is they couldn't find any other trucks within arm's reach that could tow 7,500 pounds?


Exactly. That's what I'm wondering. If that Jeep can pull 6.5k and my suburban can pull 10k then a 2007 Silverado can definitely pull at least 10k.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Who cares about physics?


This guy thinks he's smart because he bought a Toyota, too.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


Consumer reports shootout back in 07. At the time, they could not find other gasser's equipped to tow the 7500 lbs at the time for their testing.


They didn't look very hard. The Chevy Express van can tow 10k lbs..and did so back in 2002.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

Maybe what happened is they couldn't find any other trucks within arm's reach that could tow 7,500 pounds?


This is correct. And they were looking for trucks to compare at the time, not vans or suv's.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Who cares about physics?


This guy thinks he's smart because he bought a Toyota, too.



I'm not going to lye here, but i am completely satisfied with it's performance and yeah so far it's been a smart decision.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas


Consumer reports shootout back in 07. At the time, they could not find other gasser's equipped to tow the 7500 lbs at the time for their testing.


Couldn't find as in they weren't on the market or no actual trucks were available for testing? From a brief online search it looks like there were gasoline trucks with >10k lb towing capacities available, and I highly doubt the towing capacities of the gasoline trucks have gone down since 1999 (feel free to prove me wrong).

Since we're talking about diesels I'm assuming it wasn't limited to 1/2 ton trucks, and I assume a price ceiling wasn't the issue.

So were they just not able to scrounge up some gas trucks for the test?


Seems as though, they had a hard time finding domestic gassers with the tow package so they could (within manufacturers specs) tow the 7500 lb trailer. They had no problem finding diesel trucks at all at the time.

I'll do some searching so i can find the article, and i'll post it up.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

Maybe what happened is they couldn't find any other trucks within arm's reach that could tow 7,500 pounds?


This is correct. And they were looking for trucks to compare at the time, not vans or suv's.


It's wasn't hard to find a half-ton p/u that would pull 7,500 lbs in 2007. What a crock.

I guess this was before CR got burned by Toyota. Rememember how they used to automatically recommend all-new Toyota models without any repair history? Yea, the '07 Tundra and Camry changed that, CR had to eat a bit of crow.

Tundra, the truck that really is changing things. Mainly Toyota's good reputation.