Toyota Red fluid = Green fluid???

[macaddict]

I recently took my 2004 Corolla for a 30K change of fluids (oil, manual transmission and coolant).

What I noticed when I picked it up is that they put green coolant fluid even though it came with red fluid from the factory.

When I went back to the service desk to ask them why they did that, they told me that that is how they keep track to see if the coolant fluid has been changed or not.

He said that factory is red, then the first fluid change is green, and then they go back to red so that it shows as purple. He assured me that the red and the green fluids are the same.

Is this true? I was under the impression that red and green fluids should not be mixed.

Thanks all for your help

 

[Big Jim]

Interesting story. Absolutely false.

Most Japanese automakers specify a coolant that is high is phosphate and low in silicon. Toyota red is one such coolant. Conventional green is moderate in phosphate and high in silicon.

The green coolant probably works fine though, but it most certainly not recommended by Toyota.

I would be inclined to tell tham that you took it to a Toyota dealer to get Toyota fluids and that you expect them to remove the green fluid thoroughly and install red.

You might try calling the parts department of a few other Toyota dealers to confirm before getting too strident.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

macaddict:
I recently took my 2004 Corolla for a 30K change of fluids (oil, manual transmission and coolant).

What I noticed when I picked it up is that they put green coolant fluid even though it came with red fluid from the factory.

When I went back to the service desk to ask them why they did that, they told me that that is how they keep track to see if the coolant fluid has been changed or not.

He said that factory is red, then the first fluid change is green, and then they go back to red so that it shows as purple. He assured me that the red and the green fluids are the same.

Is this true? I was under the impression that red and green fluids should not be mixed. ...

---

You're right.

The current Toyota coolant is red in color.

The green stuff was pre-1996.

The current has no direct replacement in the American retail market, but the closest would be the GM spec DexCool and compatibles.

I'd request a drain and refill with the factory red coolant since they've mixed them, and when they tell you "no", I'd drop a short note to Toyota's help/service folks complaining.

I'd also look for a new dealer.

Another dealer in my area put the older Dexron ATF in 2004 Toyota with an Aisin/Warner automatic instead of the correct Toyota Type IV.

Apparently they don't train their mechanics.


.

 

[Amkeer]

They should have put th red in. You have to watch the green and red don't mix to well. I would take it back and have them completely flush the system and put in the Toyota red.

Now I know why I don't let anyone touch my vehicles!

 

[macaddict]

Thanks all,

You confirmed my suspicion. I will call Toyota HQ to see if I can get something on writing to show the stealership. I know that if I just go in, they will try to talk me out of it and not change it.

 

[doitmyself]

I'm not so sure we can go on color anymore. My John Deere SCA coolant is green, but states it is LOW silicate. I also "believe" that the standard Zerex formulation is green and it too is low silicate (opposite of what Big Jim says above).

So, there seems to be two types of "conventional green fluid": the old style Prestone(high silicate) and the low silicate Zerex green.

See: http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/ for specifications.

Everything is so confusing right now regarding colors vs. content.

I repeat - I don't think that just because it is green means that it is the old high silicate formula.

[ February 11, 2005, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]

 

[Ray H]

I posted a couple of months ago that a friend of ours took her Lexus in for its 30,000 mile maintenance and the vehicle was returned with green coolant showing in the overflow bottle. I advised her that was wrong and to contact the dealer, but, after reading this thread, I'm no longer so vehemently certain. Nissan and Honda antifreeze/coolants are both green and have NO silicates (none, nada, zip!), but are intentionally dosed with elevated phosphate content as added aluminum corrosion inhibitor. Toyota's antifreeze/coolant is chemically similar if not identical, but dyed red. It just might be possible that Toyota is supplying a green variation for internal dealer use, or perhaps, some Toyota dealers are purposely using either Honda or Nissan antifreeze/coolant - either possibility for the tell-tale sign of changeout your dealer indicated. It would take chemical analysis to check for the absence of silicates to verfiy that notion, though.

 

[Big Jim]

quote:

---

Originally posted by doitmyself:
I'm not so sure we can go on color anymore. My John Deere SCA coolant is green, but states it is LOW silicate. I also "believe" that the standard Zerex formulation is green and it too is low silicate (opposite of what Big Jim says above).

So, there seems to be two types of "conventional green fluid": the old style Prestone(high silicate) and the low silicate Zerex green.

See: http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/ for specifications.

Everything is so confusing right now regarding colors vs. content.

I repeat - I don't think that just because it is green means that it is the old high silicate formula.

---

I guess it is a matter of definition. To me "conventional green" coolant is the American older standard phosphate and high silicon coolant. Coolant can be died any color and I am aware that there are other green coolants.

I still feel that he was taken advantage of. He went to a Toyota dealer for service, probably expecting to get genuine Toyota materials. That is not what he received. Someone, probably the parts manager, made the decision to buy cheaper coolant. I'll bet that he paid a price equlivant to Toyota fluid but received something much cheaper. They will continue to try to get away with this as long as no one calls them on it.

Insist on getting what you paid for.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Ray H:
.... I advised her that was wrong and to contact the dealer, but, after reading this thread, I'm no longer so vehemently certain. Nissan and Honda antifreeze/coolants are both green and have NO silicates (none, nada, zip!), but are intentionally dosed with elevated phosphate content as added aluminum corrosion inhibitor. Toyota's antifreeze/coolant is chemically similar if not identical, but dyed red. It just might be possible that Toyota is supplying a green variation for internal dealer use, or perhaps, some Toyota dealers are purposely using either Honda or Nissan antifreeze/coolant - either possibility for the tell-tale sign of changeout your dealer indicated.....

---

My wife drives a late model Toyota.

Thanks to her choice, I am now familiar with Toytota red coolant, Toytota Type IV ATF, and the other Toyota-specific filters, fluids, and what-nots.

The red Toyota coolant is not the same as the coolant used in Honda, but is somewhat similar to the Nissan coolant. Honda coolant is not silicate-free.

There really is no exact aftermarket coolant to replace any of these three.

Valvoline's Zerex folks recommend DexCool type coolant for replacing Toyota and Nissan, but their G-05 coolant for Honda. I think those choices reflect a good understanding of the major characteristics of the Japanese coolants, both Toyota and Nissan avoiding silicates altogether.

The dealer should add the appropriate Toyota coolant to Toyotas brought in for service. That means late model Toyotas with red coolant ought to get red coolant.

Had he taken it to an independent, I can understand the substitution of some DexCool compatible coolant if the system was low.

At this point he has no idea what the devil they put in there, and a more scrupulous dealer somewhere else is going to raise the issue if the car ever needs cooling system related repairs under warranty.


.

 

[macaddict]

Well,

I finally got around calling Toyota HQ and created a case with them. I explained them what happened and asked them to let me know if there was a difference between the 2 fluids (green and red). If there was, I would like to have the fluid changed.

They told me that someone from Toyota HQ would call me that same day.

What I received was a call from the service manager at the dealership where I got the fluid changed.

He told me that the red stuff is more expensive because they buy it from Toyota but said that they are quemically the same (which I am still hoping to hear a definitive answer from Toyota HQ). The service manager said that they use the green fluid because they buy it locally and it is cheaper.

So, this friday, I am getting my red stuff...

Thanks all for your help

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

macaddict:
..... He told me that the red stuff is more expensive because they buy it from Toyota but said that they are quemically the same (which I am still hoping to hear a definitive answer from Toyota HQ). .....

---

That's quite unlikely.

The closest thing to the Toyota coolant is a DexCool compatible, and most of them are not green.

If they were, they're still not the same as the Toyota coolant, which contains phosphate and nixes the 2-EHA.

 

[Spector]

Not only is that dealer full of crap I bet that if Toyota corporate knew they were not using toyota red in cars under warranty they would be in a world of hurt toyota makes only one coolant and it is red

 

[railball]

You're right.

The current Toyota coolant is red in color.

The green stuff was pre-1996.

The current has no direct replacement in the American retail market, but the closest would be the GM spec DexCool and compatibles.

I'd request a drain and refill with the factory red coolant since they've mixed them, and when they tell you "no", I'd drop a short note to Toyota's help/service folks complaining.

I'd also look for a new dealer.

Another dealer in my area put the older Dexron ATF in 2004 Toyota with an Aisin/Warner automatic instead of the correct Toyota Type IV.

Apparently they don't train their mechanics.
Mickey they may be told to pump the junk. That is why if I take my car in it doesn't involve fluids. When I had the cars AMSOIL fluid put it I watched to be sure it was used. Too many ripoffs today.

 

[macaddict]

I have an update:

2 weeks after my stealership replaced the coolant to the original Toyota red fluid, I was adding windshield washer fluid and noticed that the coolant reservoir was dry.

I know that it was full when I picked the car up. I had no idea if those morons forgot to close the radiator when they changed it or if they really royally f*** up the system.

It seems that they do not know how to change colland fluid and they "forgot" to get rid of the air bubbles in the system when they flushed it.

Isn't that one of the first things that you do when you change the coolant fluid? Isn't that one of the first things that you do when you change ANY fluid? Fill, run engine, turn engine off, check fluid level again, refill until full?

I am so fed up with this dealership. From now on, I am doing my own fluid changes now that I am buying a house and I will have a driveway. As per warranty claims, I have no idea where to take my car.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Welcome to the "my Toyota dealership does more harm than good" club.

I have some stories that would make your head spin, and They do not get to fix stuff anymore, especially minor warranty stuff.. If I can fix it myself it's better for me and my truck to do so. Great products...The dealers are a differnt story.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Bryanccfshr:
Welcome to the "my Toyota dealership does more harm than good" club. ....

---

For years although foreign brands get higher marks in consumer satisfaction, dealers of American brands have gotten better rankings in satisfaction than dealers in foreign brands, with some high-end exceptions.

My impression is that when the foreign brands came in they were willing to let some pretty shady individuals buy franchises and they've never completely recovered from it. Several years ago, for example, a huge group of Honda dealers were indicted and finally settled over price-fixing.

It's better now, though, than it was 20 years ago.


=

 

[thrace]

quote:Bryanccfshr:
Welcome to the "my Toyota dealership does more harm than good" club. ....

My story is the same, except change Toyota to Honda. So called service costs money and creates new problems and may not solve the old ones.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mickey_M:
The red Toyota coolant is not the same as the coolant used in Honda, but is somewhat similar to the Nissan coolant. Honda coolant is not silicate-free.

---

I'm not sure about that last statement. Honda has warned against silicated antifreeze for at least the past nine years due to precipitated silicates' implications in premature water pump seal wear. (I no longer have my '96 Accord, but I still have its owner's manual.)

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Ray H:

I'm not sure about that last statement. Honda has warned against silicated antifreeze for at least the past nine years due to precipitated silicates' implications in premature water pump seal wear. (I no longer have my '96 Accord, but I still have its owner's manual.)

---

Honda's major caveat is 2-EHA.

That's why, for example, Zerex recommends their Zerex ExtremeLife DexCool clone for Toyota and Nissan, but their low-silicate G-05 HOAT for Honda.

Which is interesting, because the Saturn VUE with Honda V-6 uses DexCool.


.

 

[2005tundra2002yz250f]

On my 05 Tundra the fluid is pink. No more red I guess.