Toyota Red fluid = Green fluid???

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quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey_M:
The red Toyota coolant is not the same as the coolant used in Honda, but is somewhat similar to the Nissan coolant. Honda coolant is not silicate-free.

I'm not sure about that last statement. Honda has warned against silicated antifreeze for at least the past nine years due to precipitated silicates' implications in premature water pump seal wear. (I no longer have my '96 Accord, but I still have its owner's manual.)


RayH: Since most Honda owners are changing their water pump (with the timing belt replacement at 100k) I think the whole 'silicates hurt water pump seals' is a mute point. What do you think?
(I respect Ray H's opinion on a/f probably more than anyone else's)
 
Probably a valid point since the cost of a water pump, pricey as it is, pales in comparison to the labor charge involved in getting to it. In any event, when Honda went to a replacement for traditional silicated antifreeze, the company followed the informally agreed on engineering protocols the other Japanese OEMs did by specifying no silicates but a heavier dose of phosphates for aluminum protection. By the way, are you referencing "100k" as miles or kilometers? If Honda's current recommendation is to change out the timing belt at 100,000 miles, Honda's got an awful lot of faith in their timing belts.

Note to Mickey_M: I think Honda's major caveat is to get owners to buy their pricey, company-branded antifreeze. In that regard, the company is no different than the other major Japanese players.
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I've seen nothing put out by Honda in print to the effect that 2-EHA is specifically to be avoided. But Honda definitely specifies phosphate content - of which DEX-COOL has none. Ironic isn't it - the Europeans pan phosphates (ostensibly due to Europe's hard water - like, only a moron would cheap out with tap water, anyway, to dilute antifreeze concentrate . . .), and the Japanese relish its presence. Both regional OEMs have gone almost exclusively to aluminum engine blocks and cooling systems. Go figure.
 
My wife has a 2000 Civic. The recommended timing belt change interval is 105,000 miles (168,000 km) or 7 years, whichever comes first. This interval is the same on both the "normal" and "severe" schedules.
 
I suggest that you do a UAA (Used Antifreeze Analysis) on that antifreeze if you saved any. That way you can tell what exactly it was.
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BtB
 
The service writer is lying to you. Call corperate and complain. You then should either take it back to that dealer and demand that it be completly flushed and refiled with the Red Toyota Long Life or go to another dealer. I would make Toyota Corperate do all theleg work to correct this for you!
 
I have a '97 Camry 4-Cyl that I bought new. It originally came with Toyota Red. My dealer (whom I have come to trust) uses a Green coolant and this has bothered me a lot since my 30K mile service, and I started asking the same questions as I see in this thread. The info that the service mgr gave me recently (2005) that I think is important to share is that Toyota Red coolant has issues. The service mgr says that his long experience is that Toyota Red can lead to premature radiator plug-up, and my limited experience with it during my own multiple trials with it tends to make me think that he is right. He knows that when I get my car serviced that I don't care about the cost of parts & fluids (and his dealership does sell Red), but he is genuinely sincere that Green was the better way to go, based on years of experience. During my latest service of the cooling system several months ago, they again put Green in it -- I finally decided that I was happy with that.

Consider this: SOMETIMES the dealer may be correct in using an alternate fluid, but he cannot criticize the manufacturer's brand in front of the public. Dealers don't want to get into trouble with HQ with the "you specify this, but he said that" and I don't blame them.
 
There are lots of good coolants. But I think you can take all the guess work out by using Toyota red. There are no negative issues I know of using red. Someone may have screwed up mixing up coolants and blamed the wrong coolant. What I want to know, is there anyone out there selling official Toyota red at a good price. Maybe there could be a deal for bitog and all the people that would buy the stuff. Any ideas?
 
Big Jim and LarryL,
I could write 1000 words detailing my recent experiences with coolant on my Camry. Suffice it to say that there were no coolant mix-ups, thorough pre-flushing with water was performed, and distilled water was used to make a 50% concentration in both the engine and the recovery tank (verified by measurement). I purchased the Red myself and did all of the work myself at 60K miles. Nobody was as surprised as me that Red was causing my radiator to start to plug-up after 5 months of winter driving, as observed by drawing a little coolant off of the top of the radiator and observing the tubes. I then had the radiator pulled and cleaned professionally, and was told that it tested OK with full-flow, only the few tubes under the radiator cap (all that I could see) were blocked. The radiator cap itself was functional and tested OK, but I replaced it anyway. I was concerned that I might have another problem, like an internal leak, but the Toyota dealer (who did the work) told me that this is a rather common observation to them and that is why they switched to a green coolant. I don't know what the chemical mechanism was that was causing the classic calcium-like blockage in my radiator at 60K miles, and I am puzzled that the original Red in the car when I bought it new did not do this. I greatly suspect that if I had left the Red in my car then my blockage problem probably would have gotton worse - not something I wanted to risk give the hot nature of this engine. Am I a little concerned about Green? Yes, but at this point there is no reason for me to continue to use Red, given my experience.

There! Now you have heard of someone, a middle-aged (rather picky) engineer, who has had a problem with Red! No need to "smell a skunk", just keep an open mind and collect observations. I certainly have nothing to gain by sharing this experience, but I thought that members of the Forum might benefit.
 
The biggest problem with Toyota red pricing is that it's only available through Toyota & Lexis dealerships. The irony is that, while the formula is Toyota "proprietary", it's probably blended and bottled in the U.S. for American dealerships. Given the volume involved for servicing the most popular make sold in America, someone BIG is probably involved, but, who?

"proprietary" in this instance may not equate to "patented". I suspect (purely speculative) that the green Honda antifreeze is chemically very similar if not identical to Toyota red since Honda has published advisories against antifreeze products containing silicates and Honda's also on record as being strenuously anti DEX-COOL due to that type of formula's not having any phosphate content. Toyota lists the ingredients on the backs of the jugs - water, phosphates, ethylene glycol and sodium benzoate. These are commonly used in aftrmarket brands, but not altogether in a given product. G-05 deletes phosphates, but adds reduced silicate levels. The "Prestone" family, really a DEX-COOL type (including some store brands) use a different, though related, organic acid but no silicates and no phosphates. Peak plays recipe variations, too, in its extended-life products.
 
There is nothing wrong with Toyota Red Coolant. If you mix the red and green you will get a problem.
 
I've got Toyota Red in my 94 Corolla, which came from the factory with red. The original owner has record of two drains from a Toyota Dealer along with the water pump/timing belt change also from the dealer. The fluid was bright red when I got the car and the interior of the cooling system/radiator is spotless; no sludge/crud buildup in the overflow like our GM Dexcool equipped vehicles have. I think I'll just stay with the red from the stealer. They offer coupons for it which brings the price equalt to the new Prestone.
 
My 2005 Toyota Highlander has coolant that is unmistakenly red. In the owner's manual, they are emphatic about replacing the coolant with only their coolant (of course, because it has de-ionized water in it). They are the same people who say I can go 10 years of 120,000 miles on this original coolant.

Right!

Would anyone on BITOG take them up on that?
 
Zerex recommends that you use the Extreme
Life antifreeze for Toyota vehicles.

Is anyone useing this in their late model Toyota in place of 'pink'.
 
quote:

Originally posted by dkryan:
My 2005 Toyota Highlander has coolant that is unmistakenly red. In the owner's manual, they are emphatic about replacing the coolant with only their coolant (of course, because it has de-ionized water in it). They are the same people who say I can go 10 years of 120,000 miles on this original coolant.

Right!

Would anyone on BITOG take them up on that?


Really. My bottle of Toyota Red Long-Life coolant says it's uncut with water.
 
Even antifreeze/coolant concentrates have at least a minimal amount of de-ionized or distilled water added to maintain solubility of the additive package. I believe I read the figure of 1 - 1.5% by volume.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:
Even antifreeze/coolant concentrates have at least a minimal amount of de-ionized or distilled water added to maintain solubility of the additive package. I believe I read the figure of 1 - 1.5% by volume.

This is true, but it really can vary greatly depending on the formulation. Concentrate blenders are supposed to actually use "demineralized" water, or soft water. The cost of maintaining a DI system for an enormous blender would probably be a bit much. The main thing you need to worry about, as you know already, is keeping the hardness out of the water.
 
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