But Honda has the S2000, which really has no current Japanese competition. (If anyone says MX-5 I'm gonna be sick).
Toyota owners "boring"?
- Thread starter Greaser
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RX-8.
We'll see how boring people think they are next year when three different NASCAR Nextel Cup racing teams fire up their Camrys and start whaling on the Fords, Chevies, and Dodges.
http://toyota.com/motorsports/pitpass/index.html
http://toyota.com/motorsports/pitpass/index.html
Nothing can be said to change my opinion of the Toyota brand. My 06 4Runner/Sport V8 is anything but boring to drive or to look at. I do at times get passed though by other vehicles, but I also get passed driving my restored 1970 Mustang Mach 1. I can do some passing of my own in either vehicle if I want to!
Our 01 Corolla at 140K is still using all the components that it left the car lot with. Whether it has any "soul" or not doesn't concern me. I'm afraid to buy a domestic vehicle. The last one I owned was 25 years ago. Too many horror stories then and I don't see any difference now.
Our 01 Corolla at 140K is still using all the components that it left the car lot with. Whether it has any "soul" or not doesn't concern me. I'm afraid to buy a domestic vehicle. The last one I owned was 25 years ago. Too many horror stories then and I don't see any difference now.
You're blind, then.
There have been a lot of refinement and quality improvements in US cars now as opposed to just 10-15 years ago, but IMO, all indicators point to the U.S. perpetually being a step behind most Japanese makes in quality and reliability. I've owned quite a few cars in the 20 years I've been a licensed driver, and between my personal experiences with US brands and testimonials from my friends and family, it's easy for me to make direct comparisons between GM and Japan. My parent's are an excellent example of why I don't even shop US brands...their 85 Accord SEi performed flawlessly for 8 years, and it's replacement (93 T-bird) went right back to the dealer 3 days after taking delivery for mechanial issues. They've had a string of bad luck with their more recent Fords, I've been around the block with Ford, Oldsmobile, and Chevrolet while my Hondas, Nissans and Mazdas didn't give me any guff. Between quality issues and GMs current styling sinkhole, I keep returning to Japanese makes because of quality and content. I was asked after I bought my 06 Frontier if I looked at a Chevy Colorado. I said "yes, I looked at it, threw up a little in my mouth, and bought my Frontier".
JHZR2
Staff member
I dont find toyota products any more or less boring than any others. I have heard that buyers of japanese cars tend to be more educated, but take that for what its worth and with a grain of salt. Were talking chevys and dodges and toyotas here really... were not talking BMWs and Feraris...
I do find it ridiculous to try to infuse 'excitement' into vehicles that really shouldnt be pushed, sich as family sedans and SUVs - for the sake of making people feel good when driving around in a family vehicle. The Supra turbo, by all means, make it as fast as possible, and bring it back over here... but a camry that does 0-60 in 5.9 or a rav4 that does 0-60 in 6.5? come on! Make the vehicles more efficient, safer, even higher quality, and forget about pretending that youre nascar racer when getting into your vanilla vehicle. This applies to all makes really...
If you really cant merge onto a highway without flooring a v6, you really shouldnt be driving.
JMH
I do find it ridiculous to try to infuse 'excitement' into vehicles that really shouldnt be pushed, sich as family sedans and SUVs - for the sake of making people feel good when driving around in a family vehicle. The Supra turbo, by all means, make it as fast as possible, and bring it back over here... but a camry that does 0-60 in 5.9 or a rav4 that does 0-60 in 6.5? come on! Make the vehicles more efficient, safer, even higher quality, and forget about pretending that youre nascar racer when getting into your vanilla vehicle. This applies to all makes really...
If you really cant merge onto a highway without flooring a v6, you really shouldnt be driving.
JMH
The interesting thing is that those high powered cars get incredible mileage. Look at the EPA ratings and consumer reports stated in their test cycle they got a mere 1 MPG better with 4 cylinder Camry vs 6 cyl.
Camry's(24/33 4cylinder vs 22/31 6 cyl.)
RAV4's(6 cylinder 21/28 vs 4 cyl. 23/28)
The fuel mileage argument is not very strong in these cases.
I own an incredibly quick family car, Subaru Legacy GT wagon(0-60 in 5.5sec) and love it. I'm glad Subaru offered it.
Camry's(24/33 4cylinder vs 22/31 6 cyl.)
RAV4's(6 cylinder 21/28 vs 4 cyl. 23/28)
The fuel mileage argument is not very strong in these cases.
I own an incredibly quick family car, Subaru Legacy GT wagon(0-60 in 5.5sec) and love it. I'm glad Subaru offered it.
I'm going to guess that you're one of those fun people that maxes out at 40MPH on the on-ramp and slams on the brakes when you get to the highway because the people travelling 70mph won't stop and let you in.
Speaking for Dallas, if you're not travelling at least 70 mph by the time you reach the end of the onramp, you'll 1) never get in or 2) be forced into the concrete barrier.
One of the biggest reasons I enjoyed the 0-60 capabilities of my 'family sedan' Altima was due to the ease at which it gained speed. Attaining highway velocity wasn't a white knuckle, prayer inducing experience like it was in my 4-cylinder cars. I'm not trying to be Mario Andretti, but I do enjoy having the power when I need it. Those of us with lives that rule out a 2-seat supercar are also entitled to performance.
Speaking for Dallas, if you're not travelling at least 70 mph by the time you reach the end of the onramp, you'll 1) never get in or 2) be forced into the concrete barrier.
One of the biggest reasons I enjoyed the 0-60 capabilities of my 'family sedan' Altima was due to the ease at which it gained speed. Attaining highway velocity wasn't a white knuckle, prayer inducing experience like it was in my 4-cylinder cars. I'm not trying to be Mario Andretti, but I do enjoy having the power when I need it. Those of us with lives that rule out a 2-seat supercar are also entitled to performance.
JHZR2
Staff member
IMHO this is because people think they need v6 engines to be able to drive safely, and buy them... howmany v6 engines does toyota redesign for each 4 cylinder engine??? oooh, toyota added oil jets to their 2.4 while redesigning a whole new 3.5L v6...
I still feel that nobody really needs that much power, and if you want that much power - fine, I dont blame you, but a family sedan or SUV isnt the place... were not talking 2dr 'sporty cars' or BMW M5 tpye vehicles, were talking family haulers made to more or less beat some price point, and be economical, reliable family transport. Most every aspect of their design points this out.
And your fuel economy numbers indicate all the more reason why they should stop redesigning bigger and bigger v6 engines, and spend time puting together better, safer, longer lasting, economical cars, diesels, and the like. It is disgusting that they cant best a big v6 in fuel economy tests. It was poorly done implementation on the manufacturers' part, if you ask me.
JMH
I still feel that nobody really needs that much power, and if you want that much power - fine, I dont blame you, but a family sedan or SUV isnt the place... were not talking 2dr 'sporty cars' or BMW M5 tpye vehicles, were talking family haulers made to more or less beat some price point, and be economical, reliable family transport. Most every aspect of their design points this out.
And your fuel economy numbers indicate all the more reason why they should stop redesigning bigger and bigger v6 engines, and spend time puting together better, safer, longer lasting, economical cars, diesels, and the like. It is disgusting that they cant best a big v6 in fuel economy tests. It was poorly done implementation on the manufacturers' part, if you ask me.
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
Ummm, yeah I dont do either and live in a heck of a lot more densely populated area of the country (the world even) than you do - come and see real traffic and real driving, then gauge my skill.
Some how I manage to merge onto very fast, very full highways, with very short onramps, without issue... we dont get "texas sized" merge spaces around here, and driving with less than a carlength between each car driving at 70 is often the norm... Ever drive the Garden State Parkway on a shore traffic friday? Probably not.
Speed and acceleration does not equal a successful, safe merge. Doing 40 and stopping obviously does not either.
JMH
Fully agreed on the RX-8, superb handling, even the economy Protege' I owned briefly had a 0.87g skidpad figure and the 125bhp engine with dual intake tract gave lots of $$$$ Euro big names heartburn.quote:
Originally posted by GT Mike:
RX-8.
JHZR2
Staff member
can the RX-8 be had as a convertible though????
JMH
JMH
Quick acceleration is certainly better than a slow one. And I know you didn't call your Altima a 'sporty car', but it brings up an interesting obsvervation: it takes more than just a powerful engine to make a car feel sporty. Brings up the memories of my old Accord which with a 200hp V6 engine had a pretty decent acceleration, yet it bored me to death and I didn't enjoy the handling/cornering. Also, the power delivery was poorly controlled: think torque steer and wheel spin.
Mercedes G Wagen added a V-12 to their line,rank stupidity, just dont see the point as its futile to drive a high CG heavy vehicle to speed, also a diesel is much needed in a vehicle like G instead of V-8 or 12. Same way I can't understand porky MB and BMW sedans meant to take old executives around to have V-12 sports engines, I do see the marketing angle here and this is exactly what Toyota and other Japanese makers are emulating.
Yup, it's cool and hip to drive a car with a powerful engine, whether you need it or not, especially in a country with 55 mph speed limits, severe penalties for speeding, and cops which cannot be bribed. Marketing is great.
JHZR2
Staff member
my car makes table-top like torque from fast idle to almost redline... Only 195 lb-ft worth, but Its definitely more than enough to get to any speed fast enough without any issues.
I honestly cant even see the need for that much power!
My MB made 120 hp and ~170 tq at full boost (and those are hopeful numbers), never had an issue!
JMH
This whole 'Texas size' thing is really overstated, especially by your statement. If what you're saying is true, there's no perceivable difference between your type of traffic and what I see every day on I-75 through Dallas and all it's northern suburbs, so don't be offended if I pass on the opportunity to bow to your 'superior' driving abilities. If you rather fight that fight in a Tercel, be my guest. I rather let my car do the work instead of sticking my foot out to help it.
JHZR2
Staff member
Who said that Ive ever even sat in a tercel???
I let my car do the work, and have no problems whatsoever, without the need for a big v6... trust me, you wouldnt have any issues either. A 2.5L altima is no slouch.
marketing just mkes people think they will have issues witout a v6, and that theyre magically safer by havingmore power to merge.
JMH
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