Toyota loses 7B(and its not UAW fault)

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 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
Actualy not true,costs are the same now across the board,the links are on this board somewhere, dont make me find them :-)
Actually, i beleive the BIG difference is the cost of labor per hour. I think the big 3 are about $80 per hour while toyota's at $40.
 
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
AAHH I wondered why nobody called him out on that. Thanks Ben99gt/overkill message received
Yes, he lives with Tinker Bell and Peter Pan who all drive Tundras in Never Never Land and they do truck pulls on the deck of the Jolly Roger.
hahahaahha Kids must play i guess.
 
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Ed_T
 Originally Posted By: rszappa1
Not realy for Ford. They borrowed a whole bunch of money a few years ago form the banks that will have to be repayed. If the sales dont improve no money coming in to repay the loans....they are in deep debt to the banks right now....but i will say they were at least smarter then GM and Chrysler...
They were in deep debt BEFORE they hit up the banks. They just deepened the hole they're in. Can't see enough consumers flocking to their dealerships even in good times to pay it all off. They're screwed.
Ford is doing BETTER each quarter than the other large automakers. Expecting a PROFIT in the next quarter, after losing LESS money the first 1/4 of 2009 than any of the other large auto manufacturers. How does one classify that as "screwed"? If they continue the route they are going, at the rate they are going, they will be turning a good PROFIT by the end of this year, paying off their debt and being back in the black. Unlike Chrysler that just filed Chapter 11. I know you importaphiles get a warm and fuzzy feeling just thinking about the possibility of all the domestic manufacturers being liquidated, but that's not happening at Ford.
I've said some good things about ford in this thread, and all you can do is go on and on about tinkerbell and all that B-S. WTH is up overkill? Finally toyota makes a truck that CAN compete with the big boys, and all you do is bash on it. Probably saying stuff that you have no idea about as well. I've never been a ford guy whatsoever (and probably never will be ), but i think they're headed in the right direction. Koodos to Ford for doing whatever it takes. Looks like they're improving the quality (finally), and getting their costs in line so they can afford to stay in business. This should start paying big dividends into the future for them. I mean, right now i'd assume most people are scared $hitless to buy from GM or chrysler with the situation they're in. I will bet that most will flock to the other auto makers first. Just my two cents. Overkill; now it's time for you to say something nice.
 
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
I agree with you here. We all know the UAW are there to protect the employee, NOT the company. So going off that, guess what? Employer can't fire a bad employee (or bad seed), so they are forced with keeping that particular subpar person and living with the consequences. No wonder why they're forced into bankrupcy.
 
 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Please don't tell me 3Toyotas is trying to argue that his Tundra "out-tows" turbo diesels again.
YOu can call me a liar all you want, but the proof is in the print my friend. Not only did it outperfrom 0-60 times pulling 7500lbs, but it did better in the 60-0 braking, hill climb, and mpg in THEIR tests. The biggest test of all was the 60-0 braking with wet roads (towing & empty). This was pathetic to say the least. The closest competitor was like 20' longer stopping distance. Don't want to mention any F-250 names or anything, but that was like 40' longer. Must not have seen the pickuptrucks.com link over there that i posted huh? Oh, and consumer reports also did a shootout on the trucks as well. Call B-S all you want, but you really should read up before you do. It can make you look silly.
 
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
I agree with you here. We all know the UAW are there to protect the employee, NOT the company. So going off that, guess what? Employer can't fire a bad employee (or bad seed), so they are forced with keeping that particular subpar person and living with the consequences. No wonder why they're forced into bankrupcy.
That's just not true. You obviously have no understanding of organized labor and labor management under collective bargaining ..at least in a contemporary context. This isn't the 70's. If management wants someone fired ..they're gone. One way or another. What the union affords os for work performance to be clearly defined. Essentially, supervision/management has their defined roles and labor has its clearly defined roles. HR usually plays referee in any disputes. With all that said, you can't be fired just because your supervisor doesn't like you, thinks your lifestyle is objectionable, or your too ugly. He can't "punish" you just because he feels like it ..just because he's in a bad mood. with that in mind, the social aspects of the average employee (from either side of the divide) can decay to their lowest terms ..that is, there may or may not be anything "respectable" about either of them. The fence around that place keeps those workers in there just as much as it keeps others out. It's like a prison ..in more ways than I hope I ever care to find out. So, while you may have UAW employees that you would not want near your family or have anything to do with, there's no reason to think that they aren't building your car like they're supposed to. The way you describe it, all of them must be saboteurs or something. No one gets a free ride.
 
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
Actualy not true,costs are the same now across the board,the links are on this board somewhere, dont make me find them :-)
Actually, i beleive the BIG difference is the cost of labor per hour. I think the big 3 are about $80 per hour while toyota's at $40.
Wrong tinkerbelle
 
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
I've said some good things about ford in this thread, and all you can do is go on and on about tinkerbell and all that B-S. WTH is up overkill?
The Tinkerbell comment was directed at the discussion we've had in the past about the diesel vs gas and I REFUSE to go down that road with you again. It had NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread.
 Quote:
Finally toyota makes a truck that CAN compete with the big boys, and all you do is bash on it. Probably saying stuff that you have no idea about as well.
I didn't bash it. I bashed your logic in the OTHER THREAD (not this one) and as I said, I am not embarking on that discussion with you again.
 Quote:
I've never been a ford guy whatsoever
I think that is pretty obvious.
 Quote:
(and probably never will be ), but i think they're headed in the right direction.
I believe that is the plan.
 Quote:
Koodos to Ford for doing whatever it takes. Looks like they're improving the quality (finally), and getting their costs in line so they can afford to stay in business. This should start paying big dividends into the future for them. I mean, right now i'd assume most people are scared $hitless to buy from GM or chrysler with the situation they're in. I will bet that most will flock to the other auto makers first. Just my two cents. Overkill; now it's time for you to say something nice.
I really haven't said anything mean about Toyota.
 
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
Actualy not true,costs are the same now across the board,the links are on this board somewhere, dont make me find them :-)
If my memory serves me correctly, the hourly rates paid is not the major problem. Its the benefits, especially what is paid to retired and laid off workers.
 
look at the pdf -CAW/CANADA/CHRYSLER bargaining report Outlines the give backs,bare in mind its a union doc and sugar coats the losses and exaggerates the "we saved the this and that" sales document for a union vote .http://local444.caw.ca/
 
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
Actualy not true,costs are the same now across the board,the links are on this board somewhere, dont make me find them :-)
If my memory serves me correctly, the hourly rates paid is not the major problem. Its the benefits, especially what is paid to retired and laid off workers.
I haven't bothered researching it, but the legacy costs of the Big 3 giving out profits and bonuses instead of fully future funding their contractual obligations surely add to the burden ..along with demographics. The average BIG 3 worker is my age or older. Toyota's, or any other entrant, is probably much lower since they didn't have to hire off the bench ..so to speak. The BIG 3 is also (or was) paying for a sizable idle work force (Ford's creation) that does nothing. This "simulates" a much lower productivity curve.
 
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Please don't tell me 3Toyotas is trying to argue that his Tundra "out-tows" turbo diesels again.
Not only did it outperfrom 0-60 times pulling 7500lbs, but it did better in the 60-0 braking, hill climb, and mpg in THEIR tests. The biggest test of all was the 60-0 braking with wet roads (towing & empty).
Not only have I read those tests, but I'm pretty sure I read the pickuptrucks.com test before you did; seeing as how I read it within the hour it was originally posted. What does that matter? It doesn't. But then again, neither do 0-60 mph times. Fact is this; put a 10,000 lb. trailer behind a modern 3/4-ton+ turbodiesel and put a 10,000 lb trailer behind a 5.7 Tundra (we'll even give them trailer brakes) and let them loose on a 5,000 mile road trip that includes mountains, and that Tundra will have worked it BALLS OFF trying to do what the turbodiesel does with little effort. Get used to sustained 5,000-6,000 rpm pulls in the Tundra. The Tundra driver's nerves will be frayed and his pocket book lighter when he gets that fuel and (likely) repair bill, the turbodiesel's driver will step out yawing. If all you are concerned about are 0-60 times while loaded, there are plenty sports cars that would annihilate the Tundra on that front. By your juvenile standards, I suppose a C6 Vette is not only a better tow vehicle than 5.7 Tundra, but also a turbodiesel as well. Have you figured out how a turbocharger works yet? Have you figured out how one would allow a diesel to hold O/D better than a Tundra could ever hope to?
 
In the past, our good buddy 3Toyotas actually made the claim that a 5.7 Tundra holds O/D better than a PSD does while pulling a load. I tried to explain how that is impossible, but I think the explanation went over his head.
 
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
 Originally Posted By: hone eagle
 Originally Posted By: Bamaro
They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.
Actualy not true,costs are the same now across the board,the links are on this board somewhere, dont make me find them :-)
Actually, i beleive the BIG difference is the cost of labor per hour. I think the big 3 are about $80 per hour while toyota's at $40.
Wrong tinkerbelle
Showing your adelesence again huh? I was referring to TOTAL COSTS to the employer. Not the actual per hour rate to the employee. An employer must match ALL taxes, FICA, retirement, pentions, blah blah blah. Of course you wouldn't understand that though would you?
 
 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
I've said some good things about ford in this thread, and all you can do is go on and on about tinkerbell and all that B-S. WTH is up overkill?
The Tinkerbell comment was directed at the discussion we've had in the past about the diesel vs gas and I REFUSE to go down that road with you again. It had NOTHING to do with the topic of this thread.
 Quote:
Finally toyota makes a truck that CAN compete with the big boys, and all you do is bash on it. Probably saying stuff that you have no idea about as well.
I didn't bash it. I bashed your logic in the OTHER THREAD (not this one) and as I said, I am not embarking on that discussion with you again.
 Quote:
I've never been a ford guy whatsoever
I think that is pretty obvious.
 Quote:
(and probably never will be ), but i think they're headed in the right direction.
I believe that is the plan.
 Quote:
Koodos to Ford for doing whatever it takes. Looks like they're improving the quality (finally), and getting their costs in line so they can afford to stay in business. This should start paying big dividends into the future for them. I mean, right now i'd assume most people are scared $hitless to buy from GM or chrysler with the situation they're in. I will bet that most will flock to the other auto makers first. Just my two cents. Overkill; now it's time for you to say something nice.
I really haven't said anything mean about Toyota.
Oh no. You'd never do that. Yeah, right.
 
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