Toyota loses 7B(and its not UAW fault)

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 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Looks like to me you can't read; that's your problem i guess. I said M Y T R U C K. Can you read that? MY TRUCK, not the truck tested.
Looks like you can't read what you wrote.
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
I'm definately not interested in 0-60 times either with MY TRUCK.
But you said:
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
My 6k lb DC is putting out sports car numbers performance wise, towing and empty.
Those are both references to YOUR TRUCK, NOT THE TRUCK TESTED.
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The fact that the SD trucks are 8k lbs, they should be designed to stop within a fair amount of distance no matter how much they weigh. Especialy towing. After all, that's what they're designed to do isn't it? I'm sure it's not rocket science to be able to put larger rotors and calipers on, if the application requires.
The best brakes on the planet will only stop a certain amount of weight within a given distance. Lets pretend for a second (because this could very well be the case) that the Tundra and the F-250 have equally capable brakes. Now, using the same sized contact patch on the road, the truck that weighs 2,000lbs MORE is going to take a greater distance to come to a stop. This is basic physics. Objects in motion tend to remain in motion unless acted upon by an equal or greater force. The larger the mass, the more it takes to stop it. Think about it. Does the Tundra EMPTY stop in the same distance as it would with 2,000lbs in the bed? No? Then why would you expect an F-250, with the same sized contact patch to the road as the Tundra, to stop within the same distance given its severe weight penalty? We aren't comparing the Z06 to the Cobra-R here; cars with similar weights with differences in suspension tuning making up for the difference in braking distance, we are talking about TRUCKS.
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Tell me why the playing field wouldn't be equal at max/max. You can't tell me you believe GCWR should be equal. Nevermind, coming from you i should expect that i guess.
If somebody is performing a test of a vehicles stopping distance and acceleration, YES, the weight of the ENTIRE PACKAGE should be identical to give useful numbers. And the differences in weight should be indicated in the text as well. If the numbers are presented as being the MAXIMUM numbers for EACH package, then it should also be presented as such and should be a SEPARATE TEST.
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Pickuptrucks.com doesn't know what they're doing then huh? Their tests had all trucks with a trailer weighing at 75% of max tow capacity. The tundra had 7500lb, and the oil burners had 10k. They beleive this to have been a fair test, and you don't. Funny.
I don't believe a "performance shootout" is of any real use with a pick-up truck at all. And quite frankly, a lot of magazines don't know what they are doing. But not being a member of any automotive enthusiast group, I am sure you are unfamiliar with just how often magazine tests can be wrong and the severity of the misinformation sometimes presented. I'm not saying they are all bad, but it happens.
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You're forgetting genius.
Interesting statement.
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I currently own 3 of those 14, which takes it to 11 total. Yeah, i do take pretty good care of my stuff and we used to drive A LOT. So each of those 11 rigs had over 75k on them when traded.
You stated yourself:
 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Over 21 years, that is not a lot of vehicles between 2 people considering we each had our own car. It actually figures to be a new car every 4 years or so per person.
That is not a lot of mileage. Two of my current vehicles have SEVERAL TIMES THAT on them, and one of them is older than your stated vehicle ownership time-frame!
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I sware you can't read or something.
I swear you cannot read, spell, form coherent thoughts or formulate a proper argument. The topic of your comprehension level is a topic in itself. But hey, lets let this thread degenerate into personal attacks, that always solves things.
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I talked about hot having a LEMON. Doesn't the lemon law come into effect when the vehicle is within the manufacturers warranty period? Or when the dealer repeatedly gets the vehicle in the shop 3-4 times for the same thing? If that's the case, i have NEVER had a lemon, & All were kept well beyond the warranty.
Your first few posts in that thread MIGHT have been about your "hot lemon", or rather the lack thereof, but the remaining 24 pages were the argument everybody seems to know you for.
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That's interesting about the ford trannys and a bypass filtration setup. That doesn't explain why ford has one of the worst transmission reputation's, along with chrysler. Gee, i wonder why?
For FWD trannies, I would agree. Unfortunately, Ford doesn't make an FWD pick-up truck, and the 4R75W, 4R100, 5R100 (Torqueshift) are all touted as being very reliable transmissions with a solid reputation for durability. Your argument is kind of like me condemning the engine in the Tundra because the Sienna has sludge issues.
My bad. I don't remember exactly what i wrote back then. I did say my truck, when in fact it should have said the truck tested. The fact of the matter is, the tundra has better brakes with or without a load. The specs all over the place show that. We also know that ford is not well known for having good brakes. The tundra stopped 20' shorter than the worst one tested (which i beleive was the 07 f250)while empty. It also stopped 40' shorter in the rain, which is a huge gap. I'm somewhat following you on more weight equals less stopping distance, and i understand that. But when you have 7500 lbs of trailer behind, and it takes you an extra 20+' to stop. Clearly this shows which one stops the load better. Pretending they have equally capable brakes, doesn't do anything for me without hard numbers. From the tests i've seen, i would be willing to put money on the tundra in your even weight comparison. A lot of the reason is, the F-250 didn't have brake force distribution, VSC, or (anti locks-i think). Nor does it have 4-piston calipers with 14" rotors on the front, and i think the ford had drum rear. The capacities put on the truck by the manufacture is what they feel like that particular truck can safely accelarate, pull a hill, stop, and maneuver a trailer around on the road. That should include providing BETTER braking for THE load set by the manfacturer, and should be able to STOP the load in a reasonable distance. Period. So i don't agree with you on the equal weight while towing, when one is designed for 10k and the other......what 15k? Really though, the real test would be max vs. max. on tow capacities. This would really show the actual fair comparisons, and we would be able to come up with some good hard numbers. Pickup truck shootouts are done by a lot of magazines, and have proven to be a good thing for competition in the truck market. I think the f-150 got MT truck of the year this year. Last year was the tundra. The tundra wasn't ready for the tests in 07, and i don't remember who got that award. Might have been GM. The fact of the matter is, the tundra is the truck that's changing it all and it's done exactly that. They have raised the bar so others can follow suit. Whether or not you want to accept it, it's still a fact. They did outperform all other trucks including diesels while towing and empty, tested by 2-3 different magazines (that i know of). Pickuptrucks.com, consumer reports, and i don't remember the other. Nevertheless, it's all in black and white for all to read.
 

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 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
My bad. I don't remember exactly what i wrote back then. I did say my truck, when in fact it should have said the truck tested.
See, I can read ;\)
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The fact of the matter is, the tundra has better brakes with or without a load.
You mean that the Tundra stops in a shorter distance with or without the same 7,500lb load.
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The specs all over the place show that.
The specs you've quoted show that. I honestly haven't gone looking.
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We also know that ford is not well known for having good brakes.
My F-250, Explorer and Expedition have all had excellent brakes. Mustang? Not so much......
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The tundra stopped 20' shorter than the worst one tested (which i beleive was the 07 f250)while empty. It also stopped 40' shorter in the rain, which is a huge gap.
OK, now follow me here, as you touch on it in your next point: What happens to the Tundra's stopping distance when you put enough mass in the bed to bring its weight up to that of the F-250? Is it reduced by 20'? Do we know how much it is reduced by? Was the F-250 the heaviest truck tested? These are questions that we must have answers to to be able to draw any sort of conclusion here.
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I'm somewhat following you on more weight equals less stopping distance, and i understand that. But when you have 7500 lbs of trailer behind, and it takes you an extra 20+' to stop. Clearly this shows which one stops the load better.
Not quite. A better stopping comparison would be an F-150, since it would be in the same weight category. The heavier F-250, will by nature, since it is heavier, take a greater distance to stop. But this is a given, and anybody who tows anything should understand that the more mass you are moving, the longer it is going to take to stop it. My concern would be the repeatability of the stopping, brake fade...etc. If the 2,000lb heavier truck takes an extra 20ft, that is understandable to me. Now whether it is able to do it again and again and again without the brakes fading, now THAT is important. And how controlled the load is during that braking, again, important.
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Pretending they have equally capable brakes, doesn't do anything for me without hard numbers. From the tests i've seen, i would be willing to put money on the tundra in your even weight comparison. A lot of the reason is, the F-250 didn't have brake force distribution, VSC, or (anti locks-i think). Nor does it have 4-piston calipers with 14" rotors on the front, and i think the ford had drum rear.
My '88 F-250 had rear ABS. The F-250 comes with 4 wheel disc and ABS. It also comes with a built-in trailer brake control module with variable output. Rotor size on the F-250 is 13.66" front, 13.39" rear. No idea on the number of pistons in the front.
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The capacities put on the truck by the manufacture is what they feel like that particular truck can safely accelarate, pull a hill, stop, and maneuver a trailer around on the road. That should include providing BETTER braking for THE load set by the manfacturer, and should be able to STOP the load in a reasonable distance. Period.
Now, sit back and think about the weight thing for a second. Now, if we DID do the testing and discovered that the 20' disappears once we make the Tundra the same weight as the F-250, then where does that leave us?
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So i don't agree with you on the equal weight while towing, when one is designed for 10k and the other......what 15k?
18,800lbs for the current F-250/350.
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Really though, the real test would be max vs. max. on tow capacities. This would really show the actual fair comparisons, and we would be able to come up with some good hard numbers.
I think numerous tests would need to be performed, such as those illustrated in my earlier post in order to be able to come up with enough meaningful information to draw any real conclusions.
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Pickup truck shootouts are done by a lot of magazines, and have proven to be a good thing for competition in the truck market. I think the f-150 got MT truck of the year this year. Last year was the tundra. The tundra wasn't ready for the tests in 07, and i don't remember who got that award. Might have been GM.
As I said, not a big fan of magazines. Most guys that buy work trucks don't read them. They buy what has worked for them in the past.
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The fact of the matter is, the tundra is the truck that's changing it all and it's done exactly that. They have raised the bar so others can follow suit. Whether or not you want to accept it, it's still a fact. They did outperform all other trucks including diesels while towing and empty, tested by 2-3 different magazines (that i know of). Pickuptrucks.com, consumer reports, and i don't remember the other. Nevertheless, it's all in black and white for all to read.
You know where I stand on the above, no point in rehashing. And as for your last point, I agree. It is. And people are free to draw their own conclusions from that.
 
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 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
 Originally Posted By: Ed_T
 Originally Posted By: rszappa1
Not realy for Ford. They borrowed a whole bunch of money a few years ago form the banks that will have to be repayed. If the sales dont improve no money coming in to repay the loans....they are in deep debt to the banks right now....but i will say they were at least smarter then GM and Chrysler...
They were in deep debt BEFORE they hit up the banks. They just deepened the hole they're in. Can't see enough consumers flocking to their dealerships even in good times to pay it all off. They're screwed.
Ford is doing BETTER each quarter than the other large automakers. Expecting a PROFIT in the next quarter, after losing LESS money the first 1/4 of 2009 than any of the other large auto manufacturers. How does one classify that as "screwed"? If they continue the route they are going, at the rate they are going, they will be turning a good PROFIT by the end of this year, paying off their debt and being back in the black. Unlike Chrysler that just filed Chapter 11. I know you importaphiles get a warm and fuzzy feeling just thinking about the possibility of all the domestic manufacturers being liquidated, but that's not happening at Ford.
The company has negative cash flow, negative sales growth, and negative stockholders' equity. It doesn't take an Einstein to see that the firm, short of a miraculous, sudden, and sustained sales pop, is nipping at Chrysler's//GM's heels. The company is punch-drunk with debt. If their sales were decent they would not have needed the loans. Their sales have been trending downward for decades. Now the chickens are coming hope to roost. A quarterly blip or two is not a trend-changer. If these facts make you feel warm and fuzzy about the company and its prospects, then so be it. Until Ford turns and stays cash-flow-postive in meaningful way, all the black ink in the world won't save them.
 
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I think it also has something to do with all those Priuses. I think they lose something like $20k on EACH Prius sold. Dave
 
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Guys, Gals: Fortunately, I have had trucks as long as I have had a license. Furthermore, I have had the experience first hand of dicussing issues related with various trucks from their owners for the better part of 26 years. This is from people that actually use their trucks daily, contractors, tradesmen, etc. What I had found over the years is the "other" truck owners experienced numerous issues with their trucks, that we believe should not happen. A few issues I will recall: 1. Diesel engine seized under 10,000 miles. 2. Work van engine rod knock at under 20,000 miles. 3. Gas engine seized at under 60,000 miles. 4. Spark plug issues, or the impossible function of replacement. 5. Brake problems. 6. Peeling clearcoats. 7. Fuel pump problems. 8. Water pump problems. 9. Crank shaft timing sensor problem on diesel engines. 10. Electrical, sensor problems. There are many other issues I will not bore you with. These were problems accounted for on vehicles without the "toyota" emblem. Problems with the "Toyota" badged trucks. 1. Cheap interiors. 2. Radio problems. 3. Rust on earlier trucks due to domestic beds installed on imported cab and chassis. (bed rust) 4. Rust issues on trucks exposed to salted roads. 5. Power steering pumps. 6. Ball joint recall. 7. Isolated camshaft issue. Problems I have had over 24 years with Toyota: 1. Radios (replaced no cost) 2. Water intrusion interior (fixed no cost) 3. Steering pump (replaced no cost) 4. Ball joint recall (replaced no cost) 5. Window latch broke (replaced at no cost by toyota at 3 years past warranty) 6. Windshield wiper container cracked (replaced at no cost by toyota 3 years past warranty) 7. Earlier truck paint problems. (repaired by toyota, no cost) 8. Earlier diesel truck fuel pump leaked due to changes made in diesel fuel. (my cost thanks to uncle sam) 9. Earlier truck lost compression in cylinder after 18 years of service. (sold to gentlemen in Louisiana is now running on biodiesel at a farm) In 24 years of ownership I have never had a Toyota breakdown and leave me stranded. How we rate and determine our vehicle purchase is made using specific criteria. The vehicles have to meet that criteria specified otherwise they are not considered. After careful consideration, our most recent purchase was a Toyota Tundra 2008. We believe based on our research and experience that the Tundra is an excellent, and very capable truck. That being said we do own Ford stock, and will continue our ownership with Ford stock. We have said that Ford stock was an excellent value at around $1.00 a share, and we believe that value still exists at $5.00 a share today. Happy motoring!
 
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Yeah, my first truck was a 90 2wd toy p/u bought brand new in 1990. That truck was bulletproof, and never once give me a minutes trouble. Got good mileage, and i beat the snot out of it most of the time. Did a lot of ATV riding, and towed a 14' tandom axle trailer with 2 quads on it quite a bit. Sold it to my brother in 97 with over 100k on it. Only thing i had to buy for that truck was a belt and battery in that 100k of ownership. I did one brake job, and a few sets of tires is about it. It didnt even have a dash rattle. Within that time period, my dad had gone thru 2 chevy's with each giving numerous problems; trannies, engine, etc... Last year he went shopping for a truck, and he now has an 08 Tundra and is tickled pink with it. He tows a 9k lb fifth wheel with it, and everytime we go camping all he talks about is how well the truck handles it. OUt of the problems you've brought up with toyota's, the only one's i can honestly say we've had issues with is on our 02 sequoia and those [censored] interior door handles. Dealer replaced them a couple times at no cost, cause they kept breaking. Mainly the rear doors, which were used by our kids most of the time. My 02 tundra did get taken in for the recall letter on the ball joints. Never give us a problem, just thought i'd better getter done. The only major problem i had (which did leave me somewhat stranded) was my camshaft on this 07 tundra, which went on me at 3k miles. Toyota made it right for me with a new motor, a lease payment, AE gift card, car rental of my choice, and a 7/100 bumper to bumper extended warranty at no cost. Even though the cam manufacturer screwed up, toyota made it right in my eyes and they will continue to see my repeated business. They usually meet my particular criteria when making a vehicle purchase, with safety and predicted reliability being near the top. Most of their vehicles now have TC, VSC, BA, anti locks, and numerous airbags. All which have been proven to save lives and/or avoid an accident all together. This thread is quite interesting; i mean, a large auto maker shows their first huge loss in over 70 years, and everybody has to jump on it & put in their 2 cents. Interesting.........
 
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