Toyota loses 7B(and its not UAW fault)

[hone eagle]

20 mpg eh? Post that over on a RV forum. Borderline unbelievable. My "oil burner" replaced 2 gassers ,both did the job at 4500-5000 rpm ,over rockies and coast to coast,The "oil burner " cant be beat for the same job 1700 RPM only thing that changes is boost. It weighs 6600# two people and a tank of fuel. No one on a RV forum claims more that 9-10 with a gas engine or 13-14 with a "oil burner"(towing 10,000) your numbers show a bit of exitment.Only the Cummins guys get 20 or more empty.

 

[Bamaro]

They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.

 

[hone eagle]

 Originally Posted By: Bamaro

They would have lost much more if they were saddled with the UAW contract that Detroit has. Its NOT about being pro/anti union. Its simply a fact that it costs Detroit thousands more to build an identical car based on union wages to some extent and benefits of current & former employees to a large extent.

Actualy not true,costs are the same now across the board,the links are on this board somewhere, dont make me find them :-)

 

[OVERKILL]

 Originally Posted By: hone eagle

20 mpg eh? Post that over on a RV forum. Borderline unbelievable. My "oil burner" replaced 2 gassers ,both did the job at 4500-5000 rpm ,over rockies and coast to coast,The "oil burner " cant be beat for the same job 1700 RPM only thing that changes is boost. It weighs 6600# two people and a tank of fuel. No one on a RV forum claims more that 9-10 with a gas engine or 13-14 with a "oil burner"(towing 10,000) your numbers show a bit of exitment.Only the Cummins guys get 20 or more empty.

Please familiarize yourself with this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1416148&fpart=1 And you will understand why I will not reply to him on this topic.

 

[Ben99GT]

Please don't tell me 3Toyotas is trying to argue that his Tundra "out-tows" turbo diesels again.

 

[brianl703]

My Saab 93 out-tows the Toyota Camry

 

[Drew99GT]

 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

Please don't tell me 3Toyotas is trying to argue that his Tundra "out-tows" turbo diesels again.

Seriously! You know, when you're out in the country where trucks have to actually WORK - day in and day out, and tow a lot of weight, you never ever see Toyota Tundras. Geeeeeeeeeee, I wonder why. I saw an F250 powerstroke on Raton pass this weekend towing a horse trailer loaded, blow by a Tundra pulling a large camper like it was standing still. The rear suspension on the F250 wasn't even compressed from the trailer weight - the Tundra was practically bottomed out. I'm a Toyota fan - I own one. But if I need a truck that could get the job done, a Tundra would be my LAST choice.

 

[hone eagle]

AAHH I wondered why nobody called him out on that. Thanks Ben99gt/overkill message received

 

[Ben99GT]

 Originally Posted By: brianl703

My Saab 93 out-tows the Toyota Camry

I think if I cranked up my rear shocks, my Mustang would out-tow 3Toyotas' Tundra. Well, it would at least tow faster than his Tundra, which is all he seems concerned with.

 

[OVERKILL]

 Originally Posted By: Ben99GT

 Originally Posted By: brianl703

My Saab 93 out-tows the Toyota Camry

I think if I cranked up my rear shocks, my Mustang would out-tow 3Toyotas' Tundra. Well, it would at least tow faster than his Tundra, which is all he seems concerned with.

HHAAHAHHHAHAHA We could get get the Purvis Ford Pro Stock Mountain Motor car, it's like 2200HP on motor, I bet it would tow faster than his Tundra too

 

[OVERKILL]

 Originally Posted By: hone eagle

AAHH I wondered why nobody called him out on that. Thanks Ben99gt/overkill message received

Yes, he lives with Tinker Bell and Peter Pan who all drive Tundras in Never Never Land and they do truck pulls on the deck of the Jolly Roger.

 

[Ed_T]

 Originally Posted By: rszappa1

Not realy for Ford. They borrowed a whole bunch of money a few years ago form the banks that will have to be repayed. If the sales dont improve no money coming in to repay the loans....they are in deep debt to the banks right now....but i will say they were at least smarter then GM and Chrysler...

They were in deep debt BEFORE they hit up the banks. They just deepened the hole they're in. Can't see enough consumers flocking to their dealerships even in good times to pay it all off. They're screwed.

 

[hone eagle]

Not doing that bad, reduced the interest on the debt,acualy making payments every month just like you and me

 

[Ben99GT]

Ed T, have any sources? I believe most of Ford's so-called "debt" (outside of the recent private loans) can be traced to Ford Motor Credit.

 

[hone eagle]

here

 

[OVERKILL]

 Originally Posted By: Ed_T

 Originally Posted By: rszappa1

Not realy for Ford. They borrowed a whole bunch of money a few years ago form the banks that will have to be repayed. If the sales dont improve no money coming in to repay the loans....they are in deep debt to the banks right now....but i will say they were at least smarter then GM and Chrysler...

They were in deep debt BEFORE they hit up the banks. They just deepened the hole they're in. Can't see enough consumers flocking to their dealerships even in good times to pay it all off. They're screwed.

Ford is doing BETTER each quarter than the other large automakers. Expecting a PROFIT in the next quarter, after losing LESS money the first 1/4 of 2009 than any of the other large auto manufacturers. How does one classify that as "screwed"? If they continue the route they are going, at the rate they are going, they will be turning a good PROFIT by the end of this year, paying off their debt and being back in the black. Unlike Chrysler that just filed Chapter 11. I know you importaphiles get a warm and fuzzy feeling just thinking about the possibility of all the domestic manufacturers being liquidated, but that's not happening at Ford.

 

[Gary Allan]

 Quote:

I don't beleive toyota has ever taken any U.S. taxpayer bailouts, have they? Or did i miss something?

Yes, they did. They just didn't do it federally. Most foreign interest entering into the market had states competing for them with tax breaks. If that isn't a taxpayer financed subsidy, I don't know what is. They didn't hire 50+ year old workers and didn't build in large urban centers where the employment would surely be needed ..albeit at higher costs. They hired 20 year old farm boys. As far as costs being the same across the board, I'd check how the stats are formulated. The $24/hour UAW worker costs a bit more ..so if labor for some of the foreign outfits is the same ..the "costs" surely are not. Even if the rolling costs of producing a given tonnage of vehicle rolling chassis is the same, the foreign interests always had the option of not producing as many due to their "light weight", while the domestics had to keep the trains moving and vehicles selling to pay the bills. There's no comparison between the two. If Honda had managed to, overnight, produce 3X as many Civics, do you think the present and resale prices would be the same as they are now? It's the same for any other non-Big 3 producer. Now Toyota is starting to get too big to react in a manner that works for all seasons.

 

[GMBoy]

 Originally Posted By: PT1

 Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

You realize that Ford also builds cars and trucks in "UAW" plants? If the "UAW" is so bad, how could Ford possibly succeed? Seriously, get a grip.

Ford has a friendly relationship with the UAW...unlike GM. Look at the worker productivity numbers at Ford compared to GM. You won't even believe it is the same union. GM management is nothing but complete bafoons...all 110% idiots since Roger Smith was CEO.

GM has some of the most productive plants. The top 4 plants were GM not Ford or Japanese. And our UAW relationship is not as bad as you outsiders may think. You only hear the media and maybe a biased opinion of a few UAW members. But by and large, it's good.

 

[GMBoy]

 Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

 Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels

Two, Toyota gave millions of dollars in gifts to the local health and education initiatives because it is a strong believer in being a good corporate citizen.

Exxon-Mobil paid 30 BILLION in taxes in 2007. Does that make them a better corporate citizen? How about all the money and support provided by the domestic three during 9/11, how that does impact their "corporate citizen" status?

Right on! Japanese brands did not contribute. GM workers built replacement trucks for New York and donated them. And all the workers donated their time..they worked over to build them and were not paid.

 

[3Toyotas]

 Originally Posted By: hone eagle

20 mpg eh? Post that over on a RV forum. Borderline unbelievable. My "oil burner" replaced 2 gassers ,both did the job at 4500-5000 rpm ,over rockies and coast to coast,The "oil burner " cant be beat for the same job 1700 RPM only thing that changes is boost. It weighs 6600# two people and a tank of fuel. No one on a RV forum claims more that 9-10 with a gas engine or 13-14 with a "oil burner"(towing 10,000) your numbers show a bit of exitment.Only the Cummins guys get 20 or more empty.

Lots of tundra owners getting near 20 mpg empty. Note: this is only acheived by keeping it under 2k rpm's, which is 70 mph or below. My 20 mpg was at 71-72 mph in S-6 mode, going to vegas empty w/ 4 adults in the truck. I get 9-11 mpg towing my 8k lb fiver at 70 mph or so. Most of the oil burner guys i've read about are only seeing maybe 1-2 mpg better than I. And after the added maintenance costs of a diesel,(and previous higher fuel costs) it's pretty much a wash. Not excitement, just facts. Some guys can't get that good of mileage, but some can. It's all in how you drive, and how it's taken care of. I have yet to get these numbers until after break in (20k+). Best numbers previously were 17-18 hiway.