Toyota knew about Lexus problem 2 years ago
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Ahhhh Toyota, Toyota, where has your quality gone Toyota?
All these Toyota problems makes GM,FORD,etc not look so bad,lol
i'll stick with my GMs
i'll stick with my GMs
+1 It makes our domestic look great.
I'll stick with my Fords though.
I'll stick with my Fords though.
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
Sounds like they were making every effort to correct the problem. The "little three" are famous for making every effort to hide & deny problems.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
It is terrible. Toyota's Lean process might be showing its inferiority to Six Sigma.
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
It is terrible. Toyota's Lean process might be showing its inferiority to Six Sigma.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
It is terrible. Toyota's Lean process might be showing its inferiority to Six Sigma.
+2...
plus all there throttle sticking problems...
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
It is terrible. Toyota's Lean process might be showing its inferiority to Six Sigma.
+2...
plus all there throttle sticking problems...
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
It is terrible. Toyota's Lean process might be showing its inferiority to Six Sigma.
Lean principals apply to manufacturing mostly and not design, that's where the problem lies, and it is true for every manufacturer out there. Most of the problems can be traced back to a faulty design or cost cutting, not manufacturing processes, provided they are capable of delivering at six sigma level.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
200 engine failures, 273,000 cars recalled (adding up the numbers near the end of the article), and cars built after August 2008 are not affected.
This means that the failure rate over a period of 2+ years was about 0.07%.
I don't know, is that good or bad?
It is terrible. Toyota's Lean process might be showing its inferiority to Six Sigma.
Lean principals apply to manufacturing mostly and not design, that's where the problem lies, and it is true for every manufacturer out there. Most of the problems can be traced back to a faulty design or cost cutting, not manufacturing processes, provided they are capable of delivering at six sigma level.
Originally Posted By: SWSportsman
Sounds like they were making every effort to correct the problem. The "little three" are famous for making every effort to hide & deny problems.
Or Bandaid the problem till out of warranty. 01 Impala warped intake manifold required a replacement. They installed special "clamps". Had to be changed out during gasket repair.
Sounds like they were making every effort to correct the problem. The "little three" are famous for making every effort to hide & deny problems.
Or Bandaid the problem till out of warranty. 01 Impala warped intake manifold required a replacement. They installed special "clamps". Had to be changed out during gasket repair.
I don't like Toyota/Lexus(transport appliances) much personally except maybe IS cars as they are sporty and have a manual transmission available.
That being said it made no sense to make a recall/revision until they knew the cause and ramifications of the issue.
EVERY single car maker foreign and domestic has these issues. It is a very complicated balance of quality image after, safety, cost, and evaluating impact to come up with a recall.
That being said it made no sense to make a recall/revision until they knew the cause and ramifications of the issue.
EVERY single car maker foreign and domestic has these issues. It is a very complicated balance of quality image after, safety, cost, and evaluating impact to come up with a recall.
Every brand will have its woes at some point and there will always be people on the sidelines defending and crucifying the brand.
I think you have to go with personal experience. I have seen many problems with "Domestic" vehicles and very few with "Japanese/Korean" vehicles.
That doesn't mean that my opinion is right and all those who choose "Domestic" are blind or "Out to Lunch". It just means that I'm more likely to keep choosing "Japanese/Korean" based on my experiences.
I have seen others both in this forum and in everyday life who choose "Domestic" brands and never have problems with them.
Doesn't mean that I'm going to run out and choose them for my next vehicle but it does make you think that there might be more to the picture that hasn't been taken into account.
Just some food for thought.
I think you have to go with personal experience. I have seen many problems with "Domestic" vehicles and very few with "Japanese/Korean" vehicles.
That doesn't mean that my opinion is right and all those who choose "Domestic" are blind or "Out to Lunch". It just means that I'm more likely to keep choosing "Japanese/Korean" based on my experiences.
I have seen others both in this forum and in everyday life who choose "Domestic" brands and never have problems with them.
Doesn't mean that I'm going to run out and choose them for my next vehicle but it does make you think that there might be more to the picture that hasn't been taken into account.
Just some food for thought.
Originally Posted By: rjundi
That being said it made no sense to make a recall/revision until they knew the cause and ramifications of the issue.
EVERY single car maker foreign and domestic has these issues. It is a very complicated balance of quality image after, safety, cost, and evaluating impact to come up with a recall.
Exactly.
So, the next question is whether a defect rate of 0.07% is way past the point at which they should have issued a recall. I would imagine that the alternative would have been simply replacing the defective engines under warranty, or even extending the powertrain warranty on those cars for a couple of years.
Is there anyone appropriately informed to address that? How have other companies handled similar situations?
That being said it made no sense to make a recall/revision until they knew the cause and ramifications of the issue.
EVERY single car maker foreign and domestic has these issues. It is a very complicated balance of quality image after, safety, cost, and evaluating impact to come up with a recall.
Exactly.
So, the next question is whether a defect rate of 0.07% is way past the point at which they should have issued a recall. I would imagine that the alternative would have been simply replacing the defective engines under warranty, or even extending the powertrain warranty on those cars for a couple of years.
Is there anyone appropriately informed to address that? How have other companies handled similar situations?
But in other articles on this recall which involves valve springs, there are literally thousands of Japanese and other Far Eastern consumers who have been complaining about "wierd engine noise" with these vehicles to Toyota. So while they may not have "failed" and are not in the 0.07%, they are potential future fails. Whatever the cause (cheap Chinese parts, poorly designed parts, etc) they all need to be replaced.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
So, the next question is whether a defect rate of 0.07% is way past the point at which they should have issued a recall.
I don't think its anywhere near what would *normally* warrant a recall- especially for Toyota who are one of those manufacturers that have a history of avoiding recalls and quietly doing "good faith" repairs to avoid public revelation of problems. I think the throttle mess has made them incredibly touchy. The whole Toyota mythos is built on public perception which has been very actively cultivated over a span of ~25 years, and that perception is in grave need of repair. So they're over-compensating. But in so doing, they're stepping in the mess that they used to scrupulously avoid- recalls are always bad publicity. "Good faith" repairs are only bad publicity when it leaks out that you've done thousands of them without ever issuing a recall and drivers who didn't happen to come in for routine service and get one of those good-faith repairs start getting stranded.
So, the next question is whether a defect rate of 0.07% is way past the point at which they should have issued a recall.
I don't think its anywhere near what would *normally* warrant a recall- especially for Toyota who are one of those manufacturers that have a history of avoiding recalls and quietly doing "good faith" repairs to avoid public revelation of problems. I think the throttle mess has made them incredibly touchy. The whole Toyota mythos is built on public perception which has been very actively cultivated over a span of ~25 years, and that perception is in grave need of repair. So they're over-compensating. But in so doing, they're stepping in the mess that they used to scrupulously avoid- recalls are always bad publicity. "Good faith" repairs are only bad publicity when it leaks out that you've done thousands of them without ever issuing a recall and drivers who didn't happen to come in for routine service and get one of those good-faith repairs start getting stranded.
I remember this guy starting a thread in June 2007 on clublexus forum about his wifes ES350 surging when she was pulling into her garage and hitting the garage door. Everybody dismissed this issue and some even went as far as calling his story "far fetched". I am thinking that he is somewhere laughing his arse off.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/es350/285487-dangerous-uncommanded-acceleration.html
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/es350/285487-dangerous-uncommanded-acceleration.html
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
So, the next question is whether a defect rate of 0.07% is way past the point at which they should have issued a recall. I would imagine that the alternative would have been simply replacing the defective engines under warranty, or even extending the powertrain warranty on those cars for a couple of years.
Is there anyone appropriately informed to address that? How have other companies handled similar situations?
That's how Chrysler handles its problems. There's a known issue with the rear HVAC pipes on my minivan. Chrysler has had a TSB out for fixing the issue for a while. The problem is in the design -- the rear pipes are subject to rock chips from the rear tires and corrosion...the pipes eventually pit away and you lose your refrigerant and/or coolant.
The fix? Don't actually FIX the problem...just extend the warranty until 100,000 miles. Chrysler also did this with Bendix ABS units in the '80s and A/C problems in the '90s. I think pretty much all manufacturers use this strategy to some extent. GM came up with a new game altogether...don't fix the heated washer system AT ALL. Simply tip the customer a hundred bucks for removing the feature.
Like 440magnum said above, it's a losing proposition either way, but I think Toyota has now learned that recalling the cars produces less pain in the long term. If you recall the vehicles, you have a short-term negative perception, but in the long-term, the customer is taken care of. If you don't recall the vehicles, your risk or short-term perception problems is low (did anyone here but myself know of Chrysler's HVAC pipe problem?), but your risk of long-term issues is higher, because you have this situation where it might appear like you "covered up" the problem.
Personally, I'd much rather Chrysler recall my van and fix the stupid thing. They had to do that with the 5th gen vans, because the power sliding doors were starting fires (that's a more noticeable problem). But losing a little refrigerant or coolant? Ahh, small potatoes.
So, the next question is whether a defect rate of 0.07% is way past the point at which they should have issued a recall. I would imagine that the alternative would have been simply replacing the defective engines under warranty, or even extending the powertrain warranty on those cars for a couple of years.
Is there anyone appropriately informed to address that? How have other companies handled similar situations?
That's how Chrysler handles its problems. There's a known issue with the rear HVAC pipes on my minivan. Chrysler has had a TSB out for fixing the issue for a while. The problem is in the design -- the rear pipes are subject to rock chips from the rear tires and corrosion...the pipes eventually pit away and you lose your refrigerant and/or coolant.
The fix? Don't actually FIX the problem...just extend the warranty until 100,000 miles. Chrysler also did this with Bendix ABS units in the '80s and A/C problems in the '90s. I think pretty much all manufacturers use this strategy to some extent. GM came up with a new game altogether...don't fix the heated washer system AT ALL. Simply tip the customer a hundred bucks for removing the feature.
Like 440magnum said above, it's a losing proposition either way, but I think Toyota has now learned that recalling the cars produces less pain in the long term. If you recall the vehicles, you have a short-term negative perception, but in the long-term, the customer is taken care of. If you don't recall the vehicles, your risk or short-term perception problems is low (did anyone here but myself know of Chrysler's HVAC pipe problem?), but your risk of long-term issues is higher, because you have this situation where it might appear like you "covered up" the problem.
Personally, I'd much rather Chrysler recall my van and fix the stupid thing. They had to do that with the 5th gen vans, because the power sliding doors were starting fires (that's a more noticeable problem). But losing a little refrigerant or coolant? Ahh, small potatoes.
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