Toyota going to turbos

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: brianl703
I've seen quite a few Saabs go over 200K.


It's not nearly as common to see turbos lasting 200-300K as it is naturally aspirated engines, and until they get to that point (if they ever do), a lot of people will be aprehensive about buying a turbo....


I seriously doubt it, you give too much credit to the knowledge of an average car buyer. Most don’t know or care enough to find out what a turbo is and how it operates. The most the will know about the turbo, is that it's the gizmo that gives power and improves fuel economy, which they will be very disappointed to find out the true fuel economy when they flog these engines like an NA version.

We have a perfect example, DI engines. Most people have no clue what it is, probably don't even know what DI stands for, just like VVTI, VTEC, SOHC, DOHC etc.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
You ever seen a turbo anything last 200-300K miles or more? I never have.
Better pass then on the Kia Sportage with the new 2.0 Turbo engine you posted on a while back.

As for the OP link, the move to turbos is yet another example of Toyota following Hyundai, and not vice versa.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
You ever seen a turbo anything last 200-300K miles or more? I never have.
Better pass then on the Kia Sportage with the new 2.0 Turbo engine you posted on a while back.

As for the OP link, the move to turbos is yet another example of Toyota following Hyundai, and not vice versa.


Since I posted that topic I educated myself on the reliability of turbo powered vehicles. It's not good and I've changed my mind about the Kia...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: brianl703
I've seen quite a few Saabs go over 200K.


It's not nearly as common to see turbos lasting 200-300K as it is naturally aspirated engines, and until they get to that point (if they ever do), a lot of people will be aprehensive about buying a turbo....


I seriously doubt it, you give too much credit to the knowledge of an average car buyer. Most don’t know or care enough to find out what a turbo is and how it operates. The most the will know about the turbo, is that it's the gizmo that gives power and improves fuel economy, which they will be very disappointed to find out the true fuel economy when they flog these engines like an NA version.

We have a perfect example, DI engines. Most people have no clue what it is, probably don't even know what DI stands for, just like VVTI, VTEC, SOHC, DOHC etc.


If all manufacturers start flooding the market with turbos, news will get out even to the dummies. Look at all the diehard big 3 devotees who converted over to the Japanese makes and are now going back to the big 3. Word gets out...

 

[SteveSRT8]

The word Turbo has never been synonymous with longevity.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The word Turbo has never been synonymous with longevity.

Sure it has. There are millions of examples, all over the World. They're called "trucks"...

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The word Turbo has never been synonymous with longevity.

Sure it has. There are millions of examples, all over the World. They're called "trucks"...

Well, a commercial diesel turbocharger alone probably weighs close to a 4 banger car engines weight...
Maybe put better, is that turbochargers don't seem to shorten a diesel engines longevity very much, if at all. Gas turbo engines don't seem to have the same experience in cars but they have been fairly rare in "normal" cars. Saab, Subaru and Mazda seem to be the only ones to have turbo'd non-performance oriented cars. Turbo sports cars do get beat on more than a Corolla on average I'm sure.
It remains to be seen if the amount of maintenance and abuse a commuter appliance recieves will allow turbo'd engines to be just as reliable as an NA engine as the years pile up. I doubt it, but I imagine the manufacturers are working hard to make these engines last, so we'll see.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The word Turbo has never been synonymous with longevity.

Sure it has. There are millions of examples, all over the World. They're called "trucks"...

Well, a commercial diesel turbocharger alone probably weighs close to a 4 banger car engines weight...
Maybe put better, is that turbochargers don't seem to shorten a diesel engines longevity very much, if at all. Gas turbo engines don't seem to have the same experience in cars but they have been fairly rare in "normal" cars. Saab, Subaru and Mazda seem to be the only ones to have turbo'd non-performance oriented cars. Turbo sports cars do get beat on more than a Corolla on average I'm sure.
It remains to be seen if the amount of maintenance and abuse a commuter appliance recieves will allow turbo'd engines to be just as reliable as an NA engine as the years pile up. I doubt it, but I imagine the manufacturers are working hard to make these engines last, so we'll see.

I know commercial trucks all too well, trust me. However, I was thinking more along the lines of small trucks. Trucks like the Toyota Hilux, Mitsubishi L200, Isuzu Rodeo, Nissan Navara and Ford Ranger. You could also throw in an even wider selection of small vans and light-commercial trucks.

 

[rslifkin]

Volvo has done plenty with turbos as well. I've got a friend with a 95 Volvo 850 Turbo. It's got 290k miles on it. The whole car is a bit worn, including the engine. However, it still runs fine and makes decent power. He's had it since about 250k and hasn't babied it at all. Not sure how it was treated before that.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Volvo has done plenty with turbos as well. I've got a friend with a 95 Volvo 850 Turbo. It's got 290k miles on it. The whole car is a bit worn, including the engine. However, it still runs fine and makes decent power. He's had it since about 250k and hasn't babied it at all. Not sure how it was treated before that.

It's strange that I didn't even think of all the turbocharged Volvo cars running around, considering I have a bunch of Volvo trucks...

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The word Turbo has never been synonymous with longevity.

Sure it has. There are millions of examples, all over the World. They're called "trucks"...
Because they are run till the EGT are in the safe to shut down the engine range.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The word Turbo has never been synonymous with longevity.

Sure it has. There are millions of examples, all over the World. They're called "trucks"...
Because they are run till the EGT are in the safe to shut down the engine range.

Obviously you've never seen the guys who drive the things. Mine in particular...

 

[scotth324]

I think that another thing to be considered when comparing the turbodiesels to turbo gassers is that in most of the newer diesels the motor was designed from scratch to be turbocharged and is beefed up in the right places for that. It also has the extra cooling capacity for the turbo. On many gas motors the motor is designed to be N/A first then has a turbo fitted to it. If a gas motor is originally designed to be a turbo motor it will most likely last longer and work more efficiently than a motor that had a turbo put on as an afterthought.

 

[FZ1]

Thanks,but,no thanks,on the turbo. Gimee the DFI.

 

[SteveSRT8]

If anyone here would simply read the OP's post they would notice he specifically said GAS engines.

Diesels are irrelevant and off topic. All you diesel fans go sniff some more fumes and convince yourself of your innate superiority over all other forms of transport!

The longevity issue I speak of/to is strictly related to the proper tuning of the engine. If properly controlled by modern electronics and left unmodified and carefully maintained it may be possible to get decent life.

But the word Turbo is simply not synonymous with Longevity in gasoline motors.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If anyone here would simply read the OP's post they would notice he specifically said GAS engines.

Diesels are irrelevant and off topic. All you diesel fans go sniff some more fumes and convince yourself of your innate superiority over all other forms of transport!

The longevity issue I speak of/to is strictly related to the proper tuning of the engine. If properly controlled by modern electronics and left unmodified and carefully maintained it may be possible to get decent life.

But the word Turbo is simply not synonymous with Longevity in gasoline motors.

The Volvo cars in question are gasoline motors...

 

[rshunter]

Also take a look at the Japanese domestic market, it is filled with turbocharged gasoline engined vehicles. The use of turbochargers on gasoline engines is well understood by Japanese makers, including Toyota. All they are doing is pushing their home-market knowledge out into the world.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
If anyone here would simply read the OP's post they would notice he specifically said GAS engines.

Diesels are irrelevant and off topic. All you diesel fans go sniff some more fumes and convince yourself of your innate superiority over all other forms of transport!

The longevity issue I speak of/to is strictly related to the proper tuning of the engine. If properly controlled by modern electronics and left unmodified and carefully maintained it may be possible to get decent life.

But the word Turbo is simply not synonymous with Longevity in gasoline motors.


Wrong side of the bed ?

Volvo and Saab have been selling turbos (yes GAS turbos) for decades, and there are still many of them on the road...often running conventional 20w50 oils down here.

 

[Landrew]

What do auto manufacturers today think is the typical lifespan of cars? Do they see 5 or 7 or 10 years as the average time between new cars for their demographics? Do they really care what happens past 150K ? I haven't checked any recent stats but does it seem like there are less old cars on the road today?

 

[Spyder7]

Chevy's Cruze, which is developing its own cult following, uses a small (1.4L I believe) turbo engine in at least one of its models and it gets very high mileage. Not hybrid territory, but still impressive for a car of its size and all ICE.

-Spyder