Toyota Engine Stopped Burning Oil

Messages
123
Location
California, United States
So I made a thread about this awhile ago
After 6+ oci with a synthetic oil I stopped burning oil. First thing I noticed while driving conservatively the most part for the first two oci (3500 max rpms but mostly 2100) and loosing over 1 quart during those first two 5k oci I decided to change my driving style. Afterwards I drove more aggressively rpm wise and not too much in the speed range (its why im still alive typing this for you 😆) this somehow cleaned up my potentially stuck rings which made me think that the previous owners babied it and drove it conservatively too much so that didnt help with the faulty piston ring design, so the high rpms help with these "older" v6 toyota engines with piston ring issues and especially if babied and not wrung out every so often. The synthetic oil I used was pp/pup due to their gtl claims, and am quite happy with the results, it was quite dark for the first 3 oci where it may have cleaned the old excess oil that was in the system and potential piston ring junk, I am not a pennzoil loyalist either since I still use mobil and other oils (castrol, oriellys etc) for different vehicles. I dont claim this will automatically fix your oil burning issue for your engine (could be leaks or more serious problems), but in my rare case it did. Would using another oil work I think so but the gtl did show color differences that wouldnt be possible with other brands, and the lighter it got the less oil it used. I know the higher heat caused by the rpms removed junk within the rings and engine overall, and I also drive long distances so oil always warms up so no short trips. I also wanted to thank everyone who posted on my old thread and taught me how to better monitor the oil and what I could change, super thankful for all of you!
 
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Messages
136
After 6+ oci with a synthetic oil I stopped burning oil. First thing I noticed while driving conservatively the most part for the first two oci (3500 max rpms but mostly 2100) and loosing over 1 quart during those first two 5k oci I decided to change my driving style. Afterwards I drove more aggressively rpm wise and not too much in the speed range (its why im still alive typing this for you 😆) this somehow cleaned up my potentially stuck rings which made me think that the previous owners babied it and drove it conservatively too much so that didnt help with the faulty piston ring design, so the high rpms help with these "older" v6 toyota engines with piston ring issues and especially if babied and not wrung out every so often. The synthetic oil I used was pp/pup due to their gtl claims, and am quite happy with the results, it was quite dark for the first 3 oci where it may have cleaned the old excess oil that was in the system and potential piston ring junk, I am not a pennzoil loyalist either since I still use mobil and other oils (castrol, oriellys etc) for different vehicles. I dont claim this will automatically fix your oil burning issue for your engine (could be leaks or more serious problems), but in my rare case it did. Would using another oil work I think so but the gtl did show color differences that wouldnt be possible with other brands, and the lighter it got the less oil it used. I know the higher heat caused by the rpms removed junk within the rings and engine overall. I also wanted to thank everyone who posted on my old thread and taught me how to better monitor the oil and what I could change, super thankful for all of you!
I am also convinced that driving hard on a regular basis is actually beneficial for engines. I never heard any modern engines fail due to being drivin hard. I closely moniter the BMW forums and common problems do not seem to be affected by milage or driving style, its more time/age related.
The most gunked up engines in Holland belong to elderly people who drive short distances and always very slow, thinking they are actualy saving their car while their ruining it.

But back to topic, I also use shell/penzoil GTL based oil in my bmw: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...5w30-pennzoil-euro-l-review-with-pics.334248/

As you can read i always drive it hard and also see a lot of improvement in engine cleanliness.
I am actually looking for an 2006 IS250 and if i will buy one i will probably also use shell GTL again.

I think that for the best engine cleaning results you should:
Drive it hard
Preferably long trips/oil at operating temp
Good working PCV system
OCI no longer than 9k.
 

RateNate

Thread starter
Messages
123
Location
California, United States
I am also convinced that driving hard on a regular basis is actually beneficial for engines. I never heard any modern engines fail due to being drivin hard. I closely moniter the BMW forums and common problems do not seem to be affected by milage or driving style, its more time/age related.
The most gunked up engines in Holland belong to elderly people who drive short distances and always very slow, thinking they are actualy saving their car while their ruining it.

But back to topic, I also use shell/penzoil GTL based oil in my bmw: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...5w30-pennzoil-euro-l-review-with-pics.334248/

As you can read i always drive it hard and also see a lot of improvement in engine cleanliness.
I am actually looking for an 2006 IS250 and if i will buy one i will probably also use shell GTL again.

I think that for the best engine cleaning results you should:
Drive it hard
Preferably long trips/oil at operating temp
Good working PCV system
OCI no longer than 9k.
Totally agree, get it to operating temps and longer drives not short. Good oci and the italian tune up here and there will help the engine, one or more of these things mine was missing but not anymore.
 
Messages
118
Sounds like you discovered the old ring trick, of using lighter weight oil (counterintuitive) to rehab rings. You could have done the same thing by using a lighter weight conventional oil. Yes, it does take a while, but often works. Most people think using thicker oil will solve the problem, but it seldom does.
 

RateNate

Thread starter
Messages
123
Location
California, United States
Sounds like you discovered the old ring trick, of using lighter weight oil (counterintuitive) to rehab rings. You could have done the same thing by using a lighter weight conventional oil. Yes, it does take a while, but often works. Most people think using thicker oil will solve the problem, but it seldom does.
I would think it had a 30w or maybe 20w its whole life since the cap says 5w30, but club lexus says these piston rings suffer from burning if not driven hard sometimes due to the lower tension rings back in 06. But the thicker oil is just a bandaid fix for the problem.
 

JT20

$50 Site Donor 2021
Messages
3,552
Sounds like you discovered the old ring trick, of using lighter weight oil (counterintuitive) to rehab rings. You could have done the same thing by using a lighter weight conventional oil. Yes, it does take a while, but often works. Most people think using thicker oil will solve the problem, but it seldom does.

Aren't you going for flow rate?

If I recall, thinner oil will have more flow and for lack of a better word volume of oil vs thicker oil of same amount, pressure, everything. Almost like, there is more oil in the cylinder wall, which is what the ring scrapes against.. if that makes any sense?

I am not an expert, so, someone will come along and tell me if there are any problems with what I just said.

As to the Ring Trick. Since the suggestion is that a stuck piston ring (one that either does not or does not fully expand to scrape oil off the wall in a stroke) is causing oil consumption. Perhaps due to increased heat?
 
Messages
136
As to the Ring Trick. Since the suggestion is that a stuck piston ring (one that either does not or does not fully expand to scrape oil off the wall in a stroke) is causing oil consumption. Perhaps due to increased heat?
I know that some piston designs even have ports in it which allow the combustion compression to get behind the rings so that they fully settle against the cylinder wall.

Also with regular piston designs the combustion compression gets behind the springs and forces it against the cylinder wall. I dont know if this is also the case for the oil scrape rings.

With heavier loads(high speed driving/accleration) the ignition advances which causes greater bangs= more power. This settles the rings better.

That is also the reason why manufactureres recommend that for the break in period you drive at a changing drive style/load and not only on the highway at constant rpm, i also heard that such break in periods can cause oil consuming engines.
Again mostly old people who think they are saving their car while instead they are ruining it.
 

4WD

Messages
15,054
Location
Texas
To all the theories including old people versions - here is what I have done for decades:
Owned lots of vehicles
500 mile break in of moderate/variable speeds (you break in the vehicle, not just engine)
Do an early oil and filter change …
Then drive them as needed … on/off road … tow/work/play … town/highway
Never owned an oil burner … not even when driving those mentioned here …
 
Messages
776
Location
Massachusetts
I’ve taken apart many engines over the years. What I find is that the oil rings really can get carboned up and look like they’re just doing nothing. Loaded and clogged not allowing the oil to be scraped off of the walls and the return ports are filled with soot and carbon. I imagine the normal process of engine operation...all the temperature changes, changes in rpm’s, different weight oils, fuels...eventually MIGHT free up the occasional ring, then again might not. Maybe a piston soak or two...and the good old Italian tune up. But this stuff gets really bad. What I wouldn’t do or waste my time/money doing is buy an additive for my fuel or oil. Because carbon is not going to come off with a simple application like that once in a while.

I’ve had quite a few oil burners over the years...one started from day one (2018 Chevy Silverado bought new) used 3/4’s -1 quart every 5,000 miles. It finally started using less as it aged - maybe a 1/2 quart - and I was using Shell Rotella gas truck...I honestly think that helped, not sure.

The other was a Lexus LS460– started using oil at around 150,000 miles. Probably 3/4’s a quart every 5,000 miles. Then when it reached 170,000 miles it was burning two quarts between changes. At 179,000 miles it was burning around a quart every 1,000 miles. Traded it in. Tried different weights, different brands. Intake always seemed loaded up with oil from the PCV. Think the rings were shot. Pulled some spark plugs, half of them were coated in oil.

The other one was a 1999 Honda Accord...great engine until I really loaded it up with miles. At around 289,000 it started burning a quart every 500 miles. Before that it was excellent. I think at that mileage it just wore out. 3,000 mile oil changes using conventional since day one.

I currently have a 2016 Avalon with 60,000 miles. Doesn’t use a drop. Nothing. Kind of boring. Lol

We have an old 2008 Honda CRV with 150,000 miles, same thing, not a drop.
 
Messages
136
I’ve taken apart many engines over the years. What I find is that the oil rings really can get carboned up and look like they’re just doing nothing. Loaded and clogged not allowing the oil to be scraped off of the walls and the return ports are filled with soot and carbon
Yes i have those same experiences. I also dont think additives would help with that, also good oils already have those additives in it.

I dont know if you also got that engine in the states but the VAG volkswagen audi skoda seat 1.8 tfsi engines where know to sometimes burn a quart every 400 miles. VW maintained such tight specs/tolerances that the rings would seize due to carbon buildup.
I often see cars with those engines driving which are all black at the rear from the burned oil.

There where 3rd party companies that could install different pistons with wider specs and that redeemed the problems.
 
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25,136
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I think any of the modern synthetics will do a good job at cleaning if used on a short OCI interval. I have seen engines showing remarkable cleaning effects in the piston area with Mobil 1 0w40 also. IIRC Overkill mentioned similar results with Mobil 1 xw20.
I have always changed my oil at a shorter interval (never over 5K) and kept the PCV/vent system in good condition and never had a problem.
 

JT20

$50 Site Donor 2021
Messages
3,552
So if the rings are shot the engine will burn oil and the plugs will be coated in oil?

Is that why when a mechanic says "there is oil on the plugs" they are hinting they want you to either get a new engine or pay them to.. tear it down :)

If your rings are OK, will your engine still run fine?
 
Messages
2,005
Location
WA
... which made me think that the previous owners babied it and drove it conservatively too much ...

Maybe the previous owner did not change the oil on time or ran some cheap dino for too long ...

I will buy a "babied" car over an aggressively driven car any time. Never had any issues with babied cars new or used.

speaking of Italian tuneup ... buy a used car from a high school kid and report back :)
 
Messages
25,136
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
So if the rings are shot the engine will burn oil and the plugs will be coated in oil?

Is that why when a mechanic says "there is oil on the plugs" they are hinting they want you to either get a new engine or pay them to.. tear it down :)

If your rings are OK, will your engine still run fine?
Valve guide wear and valve seals can also contribute to oil getting into the cylinders, it not necessarily just ring issues. The conditions that contribute to ring sticking (varnish and deposits) will not necessarily show up in a UOA either. This is the area that is hottest and most damaging to lubricants.
This is why I have always been against extended OCI, on tear down the top end can look nice but once you yank the pistons the ring grooves can be a real mess.

Once this happens the rings can stop rotating and if they stop in the wrong place you can end up with a oil burner and lowered compression.
The rings groove condition must be kept clean enough to allow ring rotation to keep the engine in proper working order. Interesting read, not only applicable to race engines but all IC engines..


 
Messages
794
Location
Cali
To all the theories including old people versions - here is what I have done for decades:
Owned lots of vehicles
500 mile break in of moderate/variable speeds (you break in the vehicle, not just engine)
Do an early oil and filter change …
Then drive them as needed … on/off road … tow/work/play … town/highway
Never owned an oil burner … not even when driving those mentioned here …
Do you own a honda with K24 engine?
Do you own a 2.4L engine Toyota Camry?

Those 2 imports are notoriously burns oil.
 
Messages
1,157
Good to hear your oil burning has tapered off. It’s funny you had good luck with PUP. I’ve used PUP several times in the last 5 years in several cars and I always have oil consumption with it. Not sure why it is because I don’t have that problem when using PP.
 
Messages
5,559
Location
Los Gatos, CA
Do you own a honda with K24 engine?
Do you own a 2.4L engine Toyota Camry?

Those 2 imports are notoriously burns oil.
I own a K24 in a 2006 TSX purchased new. 200K. I never check the oil and it stays amber.
Serviced with mainly M1 at max 5K intervals.

I service 2 other TSXs, they go through 1/2 to 1 quart in 5K miles. Both have far fewer miles.
One was quickie lube serviced the other dealer serviced, both at MM intervals.
 
Messages
3,458
Location
Roanoke Virginia
Mine still burns oil lol it’s a 2004 Camry but it’s a 4 cylinder we do 3000 mile oil changes it burns about a quart to a quart and a half in between the oil changes we use high mileage synthetic blend in it and conventional sometimes too or a mix of both usually Castrol, Pennzoil or Valvoline or sometimes Havoline or Quaker State it’s burned oil for about the last 3 years or so and it probably needs new piston rings but my dad doesn’t want to spend any more money on it right now. It doesn’t bother me that it burns oil but it is a pain having to always spend money on the individual quarts of oil like $7 or $8 sometimes less depending on where you get it.
 
Messages
1,157
Mine still burns oil lol it’s a 2004 Camry but it’s a 4 cylinder we do 3000 mile oil changes it burns about a quart to a quart and a half in between the oil changes we use high mileage synthetic blend in it and conventional sometimes too or a mix of both usually Castrol, Pennzoil or Valvoline or sometimes Havoline or Quaker State it’s burned oil for about the last 3 years or so and it probably needs new piston rings but my dad doesn’t want to spend any more money on it right now. It doesn’t bother me that it burns oil but it is a pain having to always spend money on the individual quarts of oil like $7 or $8 sometimes less depending on where you get it.

Just buy a 5 quart jug and refill the single quart bottles. Much more economical.
 
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