the P-ring seal on OE Japanese filters are great - I dunno why Fram doesn’t use them on the filters that fit Japanese applications. Spin the filter until it stops on its mounting land, done. They already make the Honda A02 and did the Subaru AA12A/AA15A with those. The aftermarket square-cut O-rings are prone to over tightening.
Toyota Composite Oil Filter Cap STUCK - Any guidance?
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
- Start date
Fram doesn't use them for the exact same reason no other American oil filter manufacturer uses them.
They don't seal as well, and they're prone to sticking, because of unnecessary metal to metal contact. They're yet another attempt to solve a non existent problem.
I have never had an issue with the P gaskets in the thirty some years I have owned Japanese vehicles.
What is a P gasket? On Japanese motorcycles the gasket is round on the top, I always assumed it was just a normal o-ring, but never took one off. Is the cross section different on these?
All I know is that it looks like a P with the rounded part visible for sealing. The flat part is attached to the filter assembly.
That's all it is. And a very small one at that.
Yep - the OE Toyota Boshoku Thailand(Denso) filters for Toyota, Mitsu, Yamaha and Suzuki as well as the Toyo Roki/Filtech Ohio, M&H Korea and Mahle Tennex/Mahle Korea filters OE on Honda, Nissan, HyunKia, Kawasaki, and Japanese-built Subarus have the P-section O-ring seals. Fram supplies the aftermarket filters for Honda and Subaru - the Honda A02 and the Subaru 12A/15A also use the P-seal. However, Fram is supplying what looks like a ACDelco filter with square-cut O-rings to Subaru for service ATM.
M&H Korea was supplying the 51334 Wix applications - its like the OE Hyundai filter but in black without the Hyundai logo on the BPV. It has the same P-seal as the blue OE part.
The Asian filters for the aftermarket(Full, Union Sangyo) also use the P/U-section seal. The Chinese/Vietnamese Premium Guard does not.
When you lube the gasket with oil, it will not stick. This is with any brand.
I use Fram on all of my vehicles, the gasket was never a problem.
If this hasn't already been posted or mentioned convert your plastic type cap over to the aluminum one in the picture it is not made by Dorman get the Toyota one and the part number is on the box I changed over my daughter's 2016 with a four-cylinder engine to this from the plastic composite version and it's much easier in a sake of being safe it even feels better than the plastic I even added a picture of the tool that it's used to Molex I believe it is works perfectly
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It's not the lack of lube that causes sticking with the O-Ring Toyota / Denso oil filters. It is because they jam up due to the metal to metal contact that is made.
As I mentioned before, the factory Toyota filter on my new Camry was very difficult to get off because of this. And it's all but impossible to install one dry, because they come pre greased with a peel off cellophane cover on the O-Ring itself.
Again, lack of lube isn't the issue with these things, and never has been. It is the design itself that all but begs to cause this. Due to the metal to metal contact that is made every time you put one on...... Just as it does on both the plastic, as well as the Aluminum O-Ring cartridge canisters.
This doesn't happen with everyone else's spin on, disposable oil filters. Because you will never establish any metal to metal contact with the engine..... Regardless of torque applied.
And this metal to metal contact is easily established on these Jap filters, by torquing them with just one hand. Put a Jiffy Lube monkey on it, (or even a Toyota employee on the assembly line, as was my case), and you'll play hell getting it off.
Who needs the aggravation from a poor design like this, when American filter companies have provided a thicker, wider gasket for decades? That not only seals much better, but also does not allow ANY metal to metal contact, regardless of torque that is applied?
All they require is a dab of grease on the gasket itself. I've never had one stick in over a half century of driving. An O-ring is required for the canister type filters in order to provide an inline seal around 2 different diameters.
It's NOT for ANY type of spin on filter with face on contact. And when employed it produces nothing except potential problems. The Fram that you use, (just as I do), does not allow any metal to metal contact to occur.
End of story... I took it over to Scottys Automotive right around the corner in Campbell; they put it on the lift and removed the filter housing with a long Smappy 1/2 ratchet. Dave (owner) said it was pretty tight and would be very hard on the ground. No charge. So I put 2 $20's on the work bench and told them to get pizza. They keep a spare aluminum housing on hand.
I Amazoned the new Motive housing tool and wanted to try it but I did not wanna flake on the shop.
That Toyota filter is a bad design. Too prone to problems.
I Amazoned the new Motive housing tool and wanted to try it but I did not wanna flake on the shop.
That Toyota filter is a bad design. Too prone to problems.
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AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Scotty Kilmer?? 
Glad it's off, leverage is your friend.
Glad it's off, leverage is your friend.
131 posts about changing an oil filter ... I am astonished.
That said, I'm glad that your saga is over.
See now I'm confused because I noticed the latest greatest MotivX tool no longer engages the large "fins" and just grabs the lower flutes and claims this is superior in their marketing.
But looking at those flutes they don't look that distinct or pronounced and it appears to me you could just wind up spinning the tool and effectively rounding the flutes? I've had it happen on stubborn canister filters.
What say the experts? What is the truth?
The o-ring design (on cans) is superior IMO - they seal a bit better. I have never seen one seep, even during long OCI's. I have seen the flat-gasket style seep.
My understanding is, the newer MotiveX tool is a tighter, more precise fit than earlier tools. If the housing is stuck, the tool tends to slip and you can damage the flutes or splines. In fact, I broke off part of the filter. I believe the MotiveX tool slots were removed due to damaging the housing. The real Toyota tool engages the flutes only.
A lift offers optimal access. This is a bad design because people often overtighten things. In the case of the composite housing, this can easily become a big problem. I imagine an impact would enable you to keep pressure on the tool and avoid slippage. That was my next step.
People need to understand, the housing selas on the o-ring, not the base. There is no reason for any real torque past bottoming plus a bit more.
I know, I should really get a life... No arguement there Shel...
And here I am commenting on the thread you started ... there are a half-dozen things I should have already accomplished today, although I'm about ready to do them ... so who needs to get a life? Now if I can only find my keys ...
The Car Car Nut....I wouldn't purchase an aftermarket cap. And make a sure you oil the big O-Ring.
Amen. This applies to the Oring as well. LOL