Toyota cartridge filter vs. the rest

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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
I just saw a private label FU on eBay, $9 and free shipping

Look up part #FPS9972

And don't forget, the FU is included with AAP's PP oil change deal, and the Mobil 1 filter is included with the Mobil 1 special.

Also, the OEM filters are made in Thailand, as opposed to the US-made aftermarket Fram and Purolator. Wix's filter for that application is made in Poland, and Mahle has an Austrian-made filter.


Thailand made is supposed to carry a negative meaning?
If Japanese manufacturer of these cars have it made in Thailand, who are we to see it as a negative?
 
The oem filters are a low efficiency, and I see no con to using the higher efficiency filter. While it's not possible to prove that the engine lasts longer with a higher efficiency filter, it only makes logical sense that more filtration is better as long as we don't sacrifice flow and since we've already learned that positive displacement oil pumps don't have much issue here, especially in a clean healthy engine, I will be sticking with higher efficiency filters.
 
Originally Posted By: gregk24
It depends your definition of "better". I used to be all about flow over filtration, and the OEM filter will get you just that. The Fram will offer MUCH better filtration, and still provide more than sufficient flow. Use either filter, there are people out there who have ran OEM filters to 200K plus with no issues.


What proof do you have the Fram will offer MUCH better filtration???

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
The oem filters are a low efficiency, and I see no con to using the higher efficiency filter. While it's not possible to prove that the engine lasts longer with a higher efficiency filter, it only makes logical sense that more filtration is better as long as we don't sacrifice flow and since we've already learned that positive displacement oil pumps don't have much issue here, especially in a clean healthy engine, I will be sticking with higher efficiency filters.


What makes you think the OEM filters are "low efficiency"?

Given the reliability and longevity of a typical Toyota motor using OEM filters, I'd say the OEM filter is doing something right.

Ed
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: gregk24
It depends your definition of "better". I used to be all about flow over filtration, and the OEM filter will get you just that. The Fram will offer MUCH better filtration, and still provide more than sufficient flow. Use either filter, there are people out there who have ran OEM filters to 200K plus with no issues.


What proof do you have the Fram will offer MUCH better filtration???

Ed


There are several charts floating around that say Toyota filters are 50% efficient.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: gregk24
It depends your definition of "better". I used to be all about flow over filtration, and the OEM filter will get you just that. The Fram will offer MUCH better filtration, and still provide more than sufficient flow. Use either filter, there are people out there who have ran OEM filters to 200K plus with no issues.


What proof do you have the Fram will offer MUCH better filtration???

Ed


There are several charts floating around that say Toyota filters are 50% efficient.



And there are tons of Toyotas around with 300,000 miles on them that prove that's okay.

Clearly, in a clean engine, 50% efficiency is acceptable.

Now when it comes to marketing and getting you to buy a specific uber synthetic media filter, 99% @ 20 microns is best.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: gregk24
It depends your definition of "better". I used to be all about flow over filtration, and the OEM filter will get you just that. The Fram will offer MUCH better filtration, and still provide more than sufficient flow. Use either filter, there are people out there who have ran OEM filters to 200K plus with no issues.


What proof do you have the Fram will offer MUCH better filtration???

Ed


There are several charts floating around that say Toyota filters are 50% efficient.



I've never seen any such documentation and I follow this pretty closely - can you point me to any examples?

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: gregk24
It depends your definition of "better". I used to be all about flow over filtration, and the OEM filter will get you just that. The Fram will offer MUCH better filtration, and still provide more than sufficient flow. Use either filter, there are people out there who have ran OEM filters to 200K plus with no issues.


What proof do you have the Fram will offer MUCH better filtration???

Ed


There are several charts floating around that say Toyota filters are 50% efficient.



I've never seen any such documentation and I follow this pretty closely - can you point me to any examples?

Ed


Really? Its widely known here that they are 50%.

One of many.
http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/eao/eao_efficiency_500px.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
Originally Posted By: gregk24
It depends your definition of "better". I used to be all about flow over filtration, and the OEM filter will get you just that. The Fram will offer MUCH better filtration, and still provide more than sufficient flow. Use either filter, there are people out there who have ran OEM filters to 200K plus with no issues.


What proof do you have the Fram will offer MUCH better filtration???

Ed
Amsoil has the info on one of their studies [If you believe Amsoil some don't]

There are several charts floating around that say Toyota filters are 50% efficient.



I've never seen any such documentation and I follow this pretty closely - can you point me to any examples?

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: Ed_Flecko
I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in a single test conducted by Amsoil - their filters were well known to cause oil starvation.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technic...a-vehicles.html

Ed


The Amsoil chart references the ISO 4548 test, so most likely they had an independent lab do the efficiency testing. Also, river_rat's bench testing showed the Toyota Denso filters were not very efficient.

But obviously Toyota thinks they are AOK, so who's to argue if they are fine or not ... they obviously are if Toytota thinks so.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
How does a filter cause oil starvation?

With positive displacement pumps it isn't possible.


If the filter clogs near 100% (due to sludger Toyotas engines?) and causes the bypass valve to open a lot, it might be possible that the bypass valve wasn't flowing enough oil. That would also mean that the positive displacement oil pump would have to be in pressure relief at the same time due to the super clogged filter. Possible, but rare.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Amsoil did (eventually) cough up a warranty on a Toyota truck years ago, when a owner used the EA canister filter.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/66618-blew-my-03-v6-engine-then-i-found.html

but, we're talking cartridge filters for this thread.... I don't think Amsoil makes a cartridge filter this small.


I wonder how sludged up that filter was before the engine blew up. Notice too the engine let go while under heavy load pulling a trailer up a hill, so any reduction in oil flow certainly could have started the destruction process, and once damaged started it just went to catastrophe from there.
 
There is only one chart floating around, that I have seen here, showing a certain Toyota filter is 51% efficiency, from a competitors advertisement. That doesn't make it 100% true, or apply to a cartridge Denso filter, based on "looks." Too many assumptions.
Then there is the mathematical fact a 51% efficiency filter is filtering the oil over and over several times per minute, so the effective filtering approaches 100% efficiency very quickly, with little added dirt. With clean running engines and good air filters, it probably doesn't mean too much, the efficiency tests, in my opinion. The actual micron size fitering ability does. Five miles of driving and it's probably all about the same. It may have gone entirely too much in the marketing and advertising arena, to be the best numbers on the box type thing, rather than meaningful. There's the contrarian opinion.
 
When I brought up the efficiency, I wasn't knocking the Toyota branded filters. At $4 a pop, it would be foolish to go with anything else (especially at 5k intervals) and we all know they are well capable keeping the engine clean its whole life.

Also, the chart may be from the competition, but as mentioned, it could have been done by a 3rd party as well. Food for thought.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Amsoil did (eventually) cough up a warranty on a Toyota truck years ago, when a owner used the EA canister filter.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/66618-blew-my-03-v6-engine-then-i-found.html

but, we're talking cartridge filters for this thread.... I don't think Amsoil makes a cartridge filter this small.



thanks for posting it, good read. looks like the amsoil filter got stuck at only 9000 km, what a dud!
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
How does a filter cause oil starvation?

With positive displacement pumps it isn't possible.


If the filter clogs near 100% (due to sludger Toyotas engines?) and causes the bypass valve to open a lot, it might be possible that the bypass valve wasn't flowing enough oil. That would also mean that the positive displacement oil pump would have to be in pressure relief at the same time due to the super clogged filter. Possible, but rare.


i'm guessing the bypass was defective/failed in the amsoil filter and all the pump volume had to go via pressure relief after the pump.
 
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