Toyota Brake Pad Grease Know It All

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One thing I like about the M-77 is that it burnishes, so it will actually smooth the surface some what to reduce vibrations. It is dang expensive. I had to buy some from a seller that re-packages it.
 
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Originally Posted By: BigD1
One thing I like about the M-77 is that it burnishes, so it will actually smooth the surface some what to reduce vibrations. It is dang expensive. I had to buy some from a seller that re-packages it.
The Honda version (M-77 Assembly Paste) was less expensive for a small tube at my dealer. I picked some up to replace the Moly 60 I used before.
 

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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Well, I guess the guy at Dow was telling me the truth. Silicone based grease vs Molybdenum based grease. They really aren't even close in formulation. I now remember he did say the AS880N was a much more complex grease. Thanks for the info!
This is an inaccurate statement. Molybdenum is not a "base", but rather a "solid" boundary lubrication additive. Grease is made up of a base oil( PAO, silicone, mineral oil,etc.), a thickener (lithium, aluminum, etc. type "soap", and then other additives. Molybdenum, teflon, and graphite are all examples of solid type additives. To my knowledge, M77 is also a silicone base oil grease. Both being discussed here have moly also. Here is an illustration from a Honda manual recommending M77 for the same shim application: https://honda.oemdtc.com/Uploads/B96-001-02.jpg Two companies chose two similar, but different products to achieve the same result. Our OCD mentality then begs to ask: Is it mandatory to use one product over the other for a particular situation? The same goes for using OEM coolants, ATF, etc.. We certainly have no problem using aftermarket brake fluid, engine oil,etc. most of the time. What drives us over the edge in something like this brake application???
I forgot my medication? I do appreciate your concern. I am specifically addressing certain Toyotas. My point is that M77 is not anything similar to AS880N. The spec sheets illustrated in this thread show no molybdenum in AS880N and about 70% molybdenum in M77. I am a simple man, but it seems to me that if something is made up of 70% molybdenum that molybdenum would qualify as a "base." Seems pretty accurate to me. I am just reporting info for you to use or discard. That's all. Does this matter at all? Very Little.
 

Gebo

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Originally Posted By: BigD1
One thing I like about the M-77 is that it burnishes, so it will actually smooth the surface some what to reduce vibrations. It is dang expensive. I had to buy some from a seller that re-packages it.
AS880N must have some gold in it. eek
 
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Good lord, not the first time I have inserted foot in mouth. My apologies. I can't figure out where I imagined that the AS880N had moly. It was not my intention to call you out. I'm going to go look for a rock to crawl under now. I DO appreciate that you educated us about these products and am fascinated that companies (Toyota) actually put some effort into solutions such as this.
 

Gebo

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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Good lord, not the first time I have inserted foot in mouth. My apologies. I can't figure out where I imagined that the AS880N had moly. It was not my intention to call you out. I'm going to go look for a rock to crawl under now. I DO appreciate that you educated us about these products and am fascinated that companies (Toyota) actually put some effort into solutions such as this.
You are a good man. I accept your apology. You were only trying to help. But this Toyota grease/brake pad thing is sorta weird, huh?
 

Gebo

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Originally Posted By: HangFire
Gebo and BigD1, Thank you for digging up this information.
You are most welcome. BigD1 is a hero!
 
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I always used M77 on my Toyota brakes and it seems to work fine. I did get the red rubber grease and I've been using it instead of Sil-Glyde with good results. I don't have a contact at Honda anymore, I still know someone at the local Toyota dealer and I'll see if their "official" greases make a difference. I would think that M77 with its higher solids content would last longer and lubricate better. AS880 doesn't use moly, I'm not a tribologist but it seems like the graphite/mica/magnesium oxide are the lubricant components alongside the silicone fluid and silica(quartz) is there to thicken it while M77 is a lithium complex. Could AS880 be more resistant to water than M77?
 

Gebo

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nthach, The AS880N is what Toyota includes in their OEM shim kits for use between the back of the brake pads and the shims. When I talked to my local Toyota Parts MGR's, they said their own mechanics didn't use the Toyota greases. I am assuming because the dealerships don't want the added expense? So I wouldn't expect to get accurate info from them, if you know what I mean. As far as answering your question, I have no idea. I just know there is a huge difference between the 2 molykote compositions. IF I may speculate, key word, I noticed on some of my shim setups, especially those with the rubber vented looking piece that lays between the back of the pad and the actual metal shim, that the rubber coated shim was deteriorating. It was like the rubber was bubbling off it. MAYBE, that is why Toyota uses the silicone based AS880N vs the M77. That's why we are only supposed to use silicone products around rubber, right? Other products can make rubber swell or deteriorate. Just thinking....Mere speculation on my part.
 

Gebo

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Well, I finally got my AS880N. They actually sent 2 bottles and I only need one.
 
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Made in Japan too - like Toyota's unicorn of a grease, Body Grease W which is used in Lexus steering columns. That too is supposedly made by Dow as well. Was that AS-880N sourced from a Toyota dealer, or did Dow get you in touch with a supplier?
 
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Originally Posted By: Gebo
MAYBE, that is why Toyota uses the silicone based AS880N vs the M77. That's why we are only supposed to use silicone products around rubber, right? Other products can make rubber swell or deteriorate. Just thinking....Mere speculation on my part.
Both M77 and AS-880N are silicone based. We don't know what kind of rubber Toyota uses on their 2-part shims. Silicone is almost always a "universal" lubricant for rubber, unless it's silicone rubber that you're lubricating. http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=25EN&DCCSF=393EN&DCCSF=43EN http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=899EN&DCCSF=379EN&DCCSF=103EN
 

Gebo

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Originally Posted By: nthach
Made in Japan too - like Toyota's unicorn of a grease, Body Grease W which is used in Lexus steering columns. That too is supposedly made by Dow as well. Was that AS-880N sourced from a Toyota dealer, or did Dow get you in touch with a supplier?
Dow Supplier. Can't purchase from Toyota per my research.
 
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These days i just use ceratec ceramic grease for all brake work. Ita supposed to be the correct stuff to use.
 
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