Toyota Brake Pad Grease Know It All

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As you can see, I only have Toyota and my sig doesn't include my Daughter's 2 Toyotas. I admit I may have certain emotional and possible neurological issues when it comes to maintaining "my" cars. However, I think my issues may help some of you that can only use wet wipes when #2'ing (just trying to make a humorous point). For my era of cars, here is the definitive guideline for using Toyota OEM Greases on your Toyota OEM disc brake pads, shims and calibers. This has come about from much research and speaking with Dow Chemical Research Dept (Chris Ludlum). There are 3 greases that are recommended by Toyota Corp (I'm NOT talking about Toyota mechanics for parts deptartments). Tech Tip T-TT-0132-11 1. Molykote AS 880N ------------apply to the back of the pads between pads and shims. How it is applied is determined by how many indentions you have on the back of your OEM pads. It is the black grease (in little plastic packs) that comes in the shim kits. *Molykote M77 is a much different animal than AS 880N. They are not interchangeable per Dow Corning Technical Support. M77 is NOT an alternative to AS 880N 2. Brake Caliper Grease 08887-80609--------apply to metal edges of pads, on clips, under clips. Do not apply anywhere else.Do not apply to pistons. It's a really thick white grease that will stop the clicking you may have experienced when you apply for brakes. TSB BR004-00 October 20, 2000. I believe this applies to all Toyotas made from 1990 to 2000. 3. Toyota Rubber Grease 08887-01206---------apply to pistons, slider pins and the outside of shim where the piston contacts the shim. It is pink in color. I have been using 3M 100% Silicone Past for the sliders and I believe it is perfectly acceptable. It's a lot cheaper and readily available. I had also been using 3M Copper Anti-seize on the other parts and I do not think is is acceptable. My study indicates anti-seize is not for moving parts. If you decide to go this way on your Toyotas, get your credit card ready. This way is very expensive. $35-$55 a tube. My '98 LS400 clicked and rattled as I thought it was front end components going bad. I used these 3 greases and put in new pads and shims and ALL of my noise is gone. Note, this may not apply to newer cars. I was only researching my equipment.
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
IMO, when a manufacturer does something like this, it's a sign of a poor design. They are trying to mask an underlying design problem.
Strange... Every aircraft I have ever worked on has had a VERY specific grease for each application. Seems to me that this is a sign of Toyota giving a darn. Of course, you can use whatever greases you want. Toyota is merely stating what is optimal and why.
 

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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
IMO, when a manufacturer does something like this, it's a sign of a poor design. They are trying to mask an underlying design problem.
You may be missing the points I was trying to make. thumbsup
 

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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
IMO, when a manufacturer does something like this, it's a sign of a poor design. They are trying to mask an underlying design problem.
Strange... Every aircraft I have ever worked on has had a VERY specific grease for each application. Seems to me that this is a sign of Toyota giving a darn. Of course, you can use whatever greases you want. Toyota is merely stating what is optimal and why.
Thank you. You did get my point. I was also trying to clear up some confusion around using M77. I had been led to believe that was the "same" as what comes in those little packs with the Toyota OEM shims. But after talking with Dow, I now know M77 is not to be used on our Toyota brake components. Chris at Dow said they aren't even related and that the AS880N had a VERY different formulation than the M77. Just trying to help.
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
You can't compare aerospace to automotive. Name a mass produced vehicle that is designed to operate from over 100F to around -60F, can take a lightning strike, endure snow/ice/sand storms, bird injection, engine failure and the list just goes on.
Bird Injection sounds like a sweet band name. You missed my point: oils and greases are designed for specific applications. Knowing EXACTLY what grease is specified is only a good thing. You can use this information to make your own decisions.
 

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Amen! A "Thank you, Gebo for taking the time to accumulate such valuable information!" would be very much appreciated. wink I may start up a "Go Fund Me" page....
 
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
You missed my point: oils and greases are designed for specific applications. Knowing EXACTLY what grease is specified is only a good thing. You can use this information to make your own decisions.
Exactly, many times they will say use xyz or equivalent. Sometimes the equivalent is very hard to find eg the high moly paste recommended by some manufacturers, the only other product I know of is by Molykote who may even be the OE supplier everything else (I found anyway) is inferior and wont do the job.
 
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Thanks GEBO. It takes something beyond hiding behind the "John Wayne-man up" syndrome to be frank about oneself. Kudos to you. That you actually followed through with the OCD recommendations of Toyota is unusual (but commendable). I have pursued the OEM "recommended only" investigation numerous times, but usually backed off when I found out that others were successful using other products. Of those 3 greases, I would have been most concerned about the pink caliper pin grease because I remember threads here where people had problems with Toyota rubber swelling using anything else. I find it difficult to believe that the other 2 greases are so critical and that something like M77 would not work. Obviously Toyota put some effort into eliminating some problems (noise, etc.). Thanks for sharing. Many threads at BITOG indicate that you are not alone in being detail oriented about maintenance.
 

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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
ould have been most concerned about the pink caliper pin grease because I remember threads here where people had problems with Toyota rubber swelling using anything else. ...I find it difficult to believe that the other 2 greases are so critical and that something like M77 would not work...
Thanks for the kind words. My info came from the Research Dept at Dow who makes both of the molykotes. I asked him specifically if M77 could substitute and he just said they are entirely different animals in composition and that AS880N had a very unusual formulation. Based on that conversation, i merely ruled out M77. What's interesting is that I was told by the parts dept that the "majority" of the mechanics at the nearby Lexus and Toyota service depts use the 3M silicone on sliders. So, I am sure there are other greases/silicones that would work. Probably some would work great. I just wanna use what I think is the best.
 

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Originally Posted By: BigD1
AS-880N: Any alternative to the Toyota brake caliper grease?
Do you have the one for M77? That would be awesome to compare !
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
IMO, when a manufacturer does something like this, it's a sign of a poor design. They are trying to mask an underlying design problem.
Then it's a "poor design" from the company which makes the calipers, and their calipers are seen on many vehicles, foreign and domestic.
 
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I use exactly what you use on my toyotas. 3M silicon on the caliper pins and 3M copper antiseize on the rest. Have worked well for years.
 

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Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
I use exactly what you use on my toyotas. 3M silicon on the caliper pins and 3M copper antiseize on the rest. Have worked well for years.
Oops, what I "used" to use. I'm all in the the Toyota greases now. Matter of fact, my 4Runner is jacked up in my wife's parking spot in the garage right now as I am working on the brakes. As long as it isn't raining when she gets home, I'd golden.
 
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Molykote M-77 Solid Lubricant Paste Dow has all the information on their website. I am just snipping and posting it.
 

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Well, I guess the guy at Dow was telling me the truth. Slicone based grease vs Molybdenum based grease. They really aren't even close in formulation. I now remember he did say the AS880N was a much more complex grease. Thanks for the info!
 
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Originally Posted By: Gebo
Well, I guess the guy at Dow was telling me the truth. Silicone based grease vs Molybdenum based grease. They really aren't even close in formulation. I now remember he did say the AS880N was a much more complex grease. Thanks for the info!
This is an inaccurate statement. Molybdenum is not a "base", but rather a "solid" boundary lubrication additive. Grease is made up of a base oil( PAO, silicone, mineral oil,etc.), a thickener (lithium, aluminum, etc. type "soap", and then other additives. Molybdenum, teflon, and graphite are all examples of solid type additives. To my knowledge, M77 is also a silicone base oil grease. Both being discussed here have moly also. Here is an illustration from a Honda manual recommending M77 for the same shim application: https://honda.oemdtc.com/Uploads/B96-001-02.jpg Two companies chose two similar, but different products to achieve the same result. Our OCD mentality then begs to ask: Is it mandatory to use one product over the other for a particular situation? The same goes for using OEM coolants, ATF, etc.. We certainly have no problem using aftermarket brake fluid, engine oil,etc. most of the time. What drives us over the edge in something like this brake application???
 
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