towing large loads--- has anyone used air shocks?

[meep]

I tow a 5100lb (dry) camper with the 06 tundra in my sig. Add in gear and the trailer is probably closer to 5600lbs, and probably 200-300 lbs in the bed-- firewood, extra dump tank, camping supplies, etc..

The truck and trailer are equipped with a weight-distributing hitch and electric brakes. Truck is TRD-- has the bilstein shocks (117k on them but it still rides rather stiff empty). Truck has the factory tow package... cooling, gearing, (what else IDK--) and the leafs have an extra helper spring in them oem. I'm really not sure what it's rated to tow--- I've read from 7100 to 5900.

The RV dealer that installed it recommended that I start with the spring bar chains set at the 2nd link for tension. It drove decent, certainly better than an open hitch by a mile, but porpoised a good bit on the highway. I've tried twice to go to the 3rd link--- truck and trailer sit nicely level at the 3rd link, but the tension required to get there is HUGE. And driving, there are too many squeaks and groans back there when on the 3rd links. In my picky mind I even feel like the receiver has even shifted to twist down towards the front from all of the rotation force on it. So I've been just keeping the bars set at the 2nd links, and accepting the ok-but-not-great squat and porpoising.

Which leads me to consider air shocks. they don't seem very expensive, and I could make an onboard pump/bleed-off later for convenience (the kits I've seen are cheap junk).

What are air shocks like to live with?

Does the damping remain constant, or does it vary with air pressure?

Monroe vs. Gabriel? Amazon reviews for passenger car versions seem to describe monroes as as truck-like ride, gabriels as a car-like ride. Some folks here have had great success with the Gabriel Ultras, I've had good luck with monroe reflexes--- neither of which seem to relate to the inflatable offerings....

I do not plan on messing with the coilovers on the front. while I'd like to actually go with something a little less jarring up there, it's a lot of work and not a priority.

Thoughts??

 

[Shannow]

Not for load, but I've had Air shocks a few times...one of my sportier rides, I had them individually plumbed to try to even out "wedge"

Heck, my Caprice has "self levelling" suspension, which is rear air shocks, and on board compressor, and a sensor...and it's a luxury car

 

[skyactiv]

I know someone who put air bags on their F150 and swears by them. More costly however.

 

[bullwinkle]

Air bags/springs are the way to go, we have a Tundra with them that pulls our 3000-7000 (fully loaded) enclosed trailer.

 

[supton]

I recall seeing some RAV4's with airbags (on the web that is); the owner would put the fill valve behind the license plate or thereabouts, so that the pressure could be adjusted. Air up for towing and air down for not. But those went into the coil springs, not sure how much work to install here.

How hard is to swap out shocks on this truck?

On the WD bars, I recall reading that the right bars have to be used; they are not a "one size fits all" sort of thing. I saw some drawn out math that took into account wheelbase and trailer length etc, so as to come up with the right bar size. In short I'm wondering if the system needs more tweaking than just cranking up the bar tension. Also, are you greasing the ball by any chance?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

You want an airbag helper springs. Shocks aren't meant to help with load capacity.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: supton

How hard is to swap out shocks on this truck?

On the WD bars, I recall reading that the right bars have to be used; they are not a "one size fits all" sort of thing. I saw some drawn out math that took into account wheelbase and trailer length etc, so as to come up with the right bar size. In short I'm wondering if the system needs more tweaking than just cranking up the bar tension. Also, are you greasing the ball by any chance?


shocks should be a 20min job on this truck.

ball and load bars are greased well. the entire hitch assy was professionally installed by the RV dealer, included in the purchase price. Even the brake controller. I imagine they looked up the proper spring bars on a chart. IIRC they say "800-1100 lbs" on them.

Originally Posted By: Miller88
You want an airbag helper springs. Shocks aren't meant to help with load capacity.


do explain. they are advertised specifically for providing load-carrying assistance on a temporary basis just for this sort of thing. Boats, trailers, RVs. Monroe suggests up to 1100lbs lift. If I keep the spring bars at the current setting, I probably need ~300 lbs. What are the pro's and con's of airbag helpers vs shocks?

thank you!
-mike

 

[SteveSRT8]

Typically air shocks are long on air and come up a bit short on the shock part IMO.

 

[meep]

ok I get it. was suspicious of that.

air bag helper springs. got it. prices are a wee tad higher (like 6 times). gonna have to think about this.

thank you all. $50 was sounding like a great way to go at first...

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: supton


On the WD bars, I recall reading that the right bars have to be used; they are not a "one size fits all" sort of thing. I saw some drawn out math that took into account wheelbase and trailer length etc, so as to come up with the right bar size. In short I'm wondering if the system needs more tweaking than just cranking up the bar tension. Also, are you greasing the ball by any chance?


+1
your wd bars may be to flexible or two stiff for your application. Its hard to say, and are you giving all the pivot points a coating of molly grease???? That may account for the noise. Grease the ball, where the chains hook up, and where the bars pivot.
It sounds like the high weight is making the truck squat in back right? The LD bars should be tightened until they are applying the load to the front wheels as well if i am not mistaken. So, you are either exceeding your trucks capacity or you just need to grease things up.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: meep
Originally Posted By: supton

How hard is to swap out shocks on this truck?

On the WD bars, I recall reading that the right bars have to be used; they are not a "one size fits all" sort of thing. I saw some drawn out math that took into account wheelbase and trailer length etc, so as to come up with the right bar size. In short I'm wondering if the system needs more tweaking than just cranking up the bar tension. Also, are you greasing the ball by any chance?


shocks should be a 20min job on this truck.

ball and load bars are greased well. the entire hitch assy was professionally installed by the RV dealer, included in the purchase price. Even the brake controller. I imagine they looked up the proper spring bars on a chart. IIRC they say "800-1100 lbs" on them.

Originally Posted By: Miller88
You want an airbag helper springs. Shocks aren't meant to help with load capacity.


do explain. they are advertised specifically for providing load-carrying assistance on a temporary basis just for this sort of thing. Boats, trailers, RVs. Monroe suggests up to 1100lbs lift. If I keep the spring bars at the current setting, I probably need ~300 lbs. What are the pro's and con's of airbag helpers vs shocks?

thank you!
-mike


Airbag helpers are actual spring. Air shocks ... are shocks. Shock mounts usually aren't strong enough to support significant loads.

However, the leaf spring mounts, shackles, etc on the frame are made for heavy loads.

 

[meep]

@miller88, got it. the air springs look much more substantial than the shocks. I'm going to have to consider those.

@SOHCMan, yes they are greased up well. With the spring bars set, the back does come up an inch or two from where it'd be without them, and the front squats an inch, so they are helping. To get both vehicle and trailer level, it requires so much tension in the spring bars that... really I start worrying about whether or not the reciever can take it. the groaning adds to my fears. It's a lot of tension on a tube that is 9" long, with 4 vertical bolts that are maybe spaced 5" apart. I'm partially just afraid it's too much for the truck, even though im inside the tow rating. It's a 22' camper...

Per wikipedia, the double cab is rated for 6900 lbs tow weight.

 

[ls1mike]

Ok 6900 lbs towing, but what is your payload? Tongue weight?

Unless you update everything you do not change payload. If you look at a good portion of the books capacity it derivived from what your axle capacity, springs and tire are rated for. My guess is your payload is somewhere around 1200 to 1400 lbs. Add you, the passengers, fluids, gear and tongue weight of the trailer you are probably at your limit.

In my 3/4 ton in order to reduce porposing I added a set KYB MONOMAX shocks. Shocks are for damping and srpings/axles are for carrying.
My TT is 35 feet overall and 7480 on the scales loaded. It is 6280 dry. I bet your trailer laoded is heavier than you think.

If you are trying to increase load capacity it is not cheap if you are trying to increase stability a good set of towing shocks, a properly set up WD hitch and sway control are your best bets.

Perhaps a Reese Dual Cam or an Egualizer E2 hith may be an option. If you are lifting the rear 2 inches with the WD hitch is sounds as if you are over adjusting. Truck should ride just about level or the stock height like my truck.

 

[another Todd]

Originally Posted By: meep

The truck and trailer are equipped with a weight-distributing hitch.
The RV dealer that installed it recommended that I start with the spring bar chains set at the 2nd link for tension. It drove decent, certainly better than an open hitch by a mile, but porpoised a good bit on the highway. I've tried twice to go to the 3rd link--- truck and trailer sit nicely level at the 3rd link, but the tension required to get there is HUGE. And driving, there are too many squeaks and groans back there when on the 3rd links.
Thoughts??


I used to not be able to crank up my chains they were so tight, I had to attach the chains when I set the hitch on the ball but before I lowered it, then lower it to create the tension. Yeah, they did make a little noise but the towing was great. If you need more, as stated, air bags are the way to go, and get the onboard compressor, you will not regret that.

 

[ls1mike]

My truck sits at stock ride height, even with the stock shocks.

 

[Clevy]

I've had air bags on 2 different trucks. One had a compressor so I could pump up from inside the cab and I've had air bags that had a nipple to pump them up.
When there is no load they are easily deflateable and can be bled empty to eliminate from the equation.
I found them to be fantastic when I had a load heavier than the stock springs can handle.
Best part is the ride when empty is nice and soft same as stock and only when a load is placed on them and onlt when they are pumped up dies the ride stiffen.
They allow a half ton to carry substantially more payload however one must remember the brakes are still rated for the stock load handling rating.
The compressor equipped units are nice however I found that the system is a bit more complicated that the externally pumped type,and leave more potential for failure somewhere in the system.
The compressor type can be outfitted with a hose for pumping up tires which is nice however it is adds potential failure.
The nipple type system is simple and easy to install. What I did with those is I pumped them up to max lift,filled the truck,then evacuated the extra air until load was high enough yet ride was acceptable.
I've had both. The non compressor type are very simple and if I was to do it again I'd use the externally pumped type.

 

[ls1mike]

They do also make what is called an overload shock. It is a shock with a coil spring around it that will increase capacity.
Shocks alone will not do it.

The air bags are good, but you if you need them for extra weight vice stability or porposing, chances are you already at the limit of the what the truck should be doing.

 

[supton]

After spending too much time on the 'web, I've become a believer in the "don't go past 80% of GCWR". Truck might be rated for 6900lb (and under the old towing standards) but that doesn't mean much. IMO you're probably at the limit: 5,100lb trailer which you think is at 5,600, plus another 2-300 in truck bed, means you're likely in reality past 6k. Perhaps well past it, like ls1mike says. Might not be much to "properly" help it, short of reducing the weight.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
They do also make what is called an overload shock. It is a shock with a coil spring around it that will increase capacity.
Shocks alone will not do it.

The air bags are good, but you if you need them for extra weight vice stability or porposing, chances are you already at the limit of the what the truck should be doing.


This is rarely considered here. I have learned the hard way over many years that it is NEVER a good idea to operate anything at its maximum. I know we'll hear from dozens who have towed Mt. Everest home with a Yugo, but it is not safe or smart to do this without some careful thought.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: meep
I tow a 5100lb (dry) camper with the 06 tundra in my sig. Add in gear and the trailer is probably closer to 5600lbs, and probably 200-300 lbs in the bed-- firewood, extra dump tank, camping supplies, etc..

The truck and trailer are equipped with a weight-distributing hitch and electric brakes. Truck is TRD-- has the bilstein shocks (117k on them but it still rides rather stiff empty). Truck has the factory tow package... cooling, gearing, (what else IDK--) and the leafs have an extra helper spring in them oem. I'm really not sure what it's rated to tow--- I've read from 7100 to 5900.

The RV dealer that installed it recommended that I start with the spring bar chains set at the 2nd link for tension. It drove decent, certainly better than an open hitch by a mile, but porpoised a good bit on the highway. I've tried twice to go to the 3rd link--- truck and trailer sit nicely level at the 3rd link, but the tension required to get there is HUGE. And driving, there are too many squeaks and groans back there when on the 3rd links. In my picky mind I even feel like the receiver has even shifted to twist down towards the front from all of the rotation force on it. So I've been just keeping the bars set at the 2nd links, and accepting the ok-but-not-great squat and porpoising.

Which leads me to consider air shocks. they don't seem very expensive, and I could make an onboard pump/bleed-off later for convenience (the kits I've seen are cheap junk).

What are air shocks like to live with?

Does the damping remain constant, or does it vary with air pressure?

Monroe vs. Gabriel? Amazon reviews for passenger car versions seem to describe monroes as as truck-like ride, gabriels as a car-like ride. Some folks here have had great success with the Gabriel Ultras, I've had good luck with monroe reflexes--- neither of which seem to relate to the inflatable offerings....

I do not plan on messing with the coilovers on the front. while I'd like to actually go with something a little less jarring up there, it's a lot of work and not a priority.

Thoughts??


As someone who tows with a half ton (Silverado 1500) I suggest you get to know your actual ratings. They are on the door pillar so no need to wonder. The most important are payload capacity (using GVWR) and actual towing capacity (using GCWR). The payload capacity will be lower than you think and don't take the word of the manuals and online info as your vehicle will be equipped a little differently and that info is on the truck. My payload was ~200lb less than what the manual and online information stated.

I tow a 7k travel trailer and have issues with porpoising a little and so I had Air Lift air bags installed (manual inflation). They work ok for this problem but didn't get rid of it entirely but help to dampen the oscillations. Regardless, don't use the air bags to solve poor weight distribution hitch setup. Spend some time on rv.net forums (towing section) which are great to understand how to properly setup the hitch. I have found that by using the tongue jack to lift up the back end of your truck will enable you to get extra links in the chain. Measure the distance from the ground to the wheel well of front and back before and after setting up the WDH. I find the most important is to return as much as possible the front of the truck to it's original height. This means you are transfering weight back to the front (the main purpose of the WDH). The WDH is not there to solve sagging issues. This is where the air bag can help a little to restore the back end to level. But, it is important that the air bags are not used in place of not properly distributing weight back to the front.

As long as the hitch is rated properly (and there should be a sticker on it) I wouldn't worry about noise so much. The chains make noise and if you have a friction sway control they are horrible. I just learn to ignore it.