Top Tier gas and when to not fill your tank?

[dave1251]

Quote:

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The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

1. Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

Meh. I'm not a big fan of gas with ethanol blended in. Slightly lower gas mileage and more likely to foul spark plugs because EtOH is water soluble and attracts moisture.

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Ethanol absorbs moisture. That’s a benefit when ethanol is present in your car’s fuel system.

 

[BUBBA0420]

Since when does Top Tier gas have to contain Ethanol.
The Shell station buy me claims no alcohol and I
believe them because you can't smell it when you are filling
your tank. In the summer it gives me much better mileage
than Marathon, SPeedway or BP. This time of year it doesn't
matter as there Winter Blend mileage really stinks. I am
down 5 MPG over what I get in the summer.

 

[GMorg]

Bubba0420, Top Tier doesn't have to contain EtOH. That was the point that I tried to make two posts up from yours in this thread.

 

[obbop]

Doesn't occur often but............

but.............

it does.

WHAT HAPPENS YOU OLD COOT!!!!!!!

Patience, grasshopper.

Recent news story in Omyhaw NE was about a Sinclair station's tanks becoming contaminated with water for some reason. A buncha' cars and trucks were immobilized. TV station sent a reporter to a repair shop that had one of the cars that filled up at the station. When the gas tank was drained the mechanic placed a portion of the contents into a glass jar. After settling, there was around 4 inches of water at the bottom of the 10-inch or so tall glass jar.

The station readily agreed to pay all costs of repair for those affected..... leading this Coot to ponder......

What if biz is slow for repair shops? Just go to gas stations that close at night and pump a buncha' water into the tanks!!!!!!!!

Sorta' like the rumor out in the 'Frisco Bay Area back during the "radical" days that glass firms paid long-haired hippy-type folks to toss rocks at plate glass windows so as to increase business for said glass replacement firms.

Just a rumor. Can't recall proof. Makes sense, though!!!!!

What was the question, again?

 

[Jax_RX8]

Quote:

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I think that the link above may create a little confusion. I think that the link describes the tests used to certify the Top Tier Additive system. I do not think that Top Tier requires EtOH in the final blend. It does require a detergent system that will still work in the presence of EtOH.

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I disagree. The previous paragraph is about testing. The paragraph that this "requirement" comes from is about "base fuel". Here is the entire section:



1.3.1 Intake Valve Keep Clean Initial Performance Standard.

1.3.1.1 Test Method. Intake valve deposit (IVD) keep clean performance shall be demonstrated using ASTM D 6201, Standard Test Method for Dynamometer Evaluation of Unleaded Spark-lgnition Engine Fuel for Intake Valve Deposit Formation. Tests demonstrating base fuel minimum deposit level (1.3.1.2) and additive performance (1.3.1.3) shall be conducted using the same engine block and cylinder head. All results shall be derived from operationally valid tests in accordance with the test validation criteria of ASTM D 6201. IVD results shall be reported for individual valves and as an average of all valves.

1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

1. Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.
2. Contain no less than 8 volume percent olefins. At least 75% of the olefins shall be derived from FCC gasoline as defined by CARB (advisory letter, April 19, 2001).
3. Contain no less than 28 volume percent aromatics.
4. Contain no less than 48 mg/kg sulfur. At least 60% of the sulfur shall be derived from FCC blend stock.
5. Produce a 90% evaporation distillation temperature no less than 290°F.
6. Produce IVD no less than 500 mg averaged over all intake valves.

1.3.1.3 Demonstration of Performance. The base fuel from 1.3.1.2 shall contain enough deposit control additive such the IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves. Results for individual valves and an average shall be reported. The unwashed gum level of the fuel containing deposit control additive shall be determined according to ASTM D 381 and reported.

 

[GMorg]

The base fuel is the base used in this test. Notice that the description lists the amount of junk as minimums. ("No less than 48 mg/kg sulfur", for example). The detergent package that is tested must prevent that junk from collecting. The entire link is about how the standards are demonstated via testing. You must show that your additive keeps things clean and that without your additive things get dirty. The base fuel standard is to prevent a company from using some super-clean base that doesn't dirty an engine anyway and then claiming that their additives work.

I currently stand behind my original statement that the link may cause some confusion.

 

[GMorg]

By the way, we have been here before:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post301076

 

[Jax_RX8]

Quote:

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The base fuel is the base used in this test. Notice that the description lists the amount of junk as minimums. ("No less than 48 mg/kg sulfur", for example). The detergent package that is tested must prevent that junk from collecting. The entire link is about how the standards are demonstated via testing. You must show that your additive keeps things clean and that without your additive things get dirty. The base fuel standard is to prevent a company from using some super-clean base that doesn't dirty an engine anyway and then claiming that their additives work.

I currently stand behind my original statement that the link may cause some confusion.

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I went back and re-read several times - you are right.

Boy is that write-up poorly written and organized as it does not directly state that the "base fuel" is the fuel used to add the "additive" package being tested.

The key here is they are testing the "additive" and not the actual compete fuel from a vendor. In hindsight, this makes sense since all the gas vendors are essentially using the same gas from the distribution center and just adding their "additive" package to it anyways.

 

[GMorg]

I think that nearly anything written in English can be read more than one way.

 

[unDummy]

Do gas stations use a 'float' pickup in their tanks? Or is the pickup at the bottom which means nothing gets a chance to settle since its pump out immediately?

Just stick with a busy name brand gas station and don't worry about when you fill up. If top tier is in the area and not overpriced, by all means use it.

Toptier is worth it. Too bad EPA can't produced a clean fuel spec. From what I understand, the EPA lowered its standards to reduce the cost of fuel for the common consumer. Short term benefit that costs more in the long term. Democracy at work!

 

[ted s]

in NY all gas is 10% ethanol.

 

[another Todd]

No, do not fill up while a tanker is off-loading into the stations tanks or for about a day afterwards. Not only is there sediment in the stations tanks, but the tanker may have some sediment in it as well. It's best to wait and let all of that settle before pumping the fuel into your car or truck.

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I think this is kinda funny. After the tanker stirs it all up, you wait a day for it to all settle out before filling your tank. Where do you think the fuel pickup is for the pumps...it's on the bottom of the tank where the sediment now is. Perhaps, you should be looking for the tankers making the delivery to fill up while the sediment is all stirred up. Besides, as mentioned, reputable fuel stations will have filters.