Top electric vehicle registrations in Europe by company, April 2025

And I'll add, it's somewhat amusing that Tesla capitulating to People Eating Tasty Animals (PETA), which is where their leather phaseout came from, in an attempt to placate their "base", has been completely torpedoed by Elon's recent political involvement. The same folks that were "rah rah, save the trees, rah rah buy a green EV!" have been out vandalizing and torching the products they had been lauding.
 
I like the seats in our M3P and I like the seats in our GS350 F Sport.
I like my leather shoes and belts, and my steak medium rare.

Here's the cheap plastic from the red cow in the RX450h F Sport... Just kidding @Trav; all good. I don't even know if it is leather or not...
1748801900353.webp
 
But it's certainly implied that it's greener:
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/24/tesla-vegan-leather-seats-how-not-to-destroy-the-rainforest/

Despite the hype in that article about petroleum alternatives being used for "vegan leather", stating that most of them are not using (old school) petroleum, the reality is that most of them ARE using petroleum, including Tesla:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/vegan-leather-in-cars

So the arguments made at the end that it has lower CO2 emissions, uses fewer chemicals...etc. All that nonsense is just fantastical delusion from the same crowd that believes you can run a major economy on wind turbines and a few hours of batteries.
I think you’re mistaking me for someone who considered any part of this when buying the car. I’m not the virtue signaler that the high and mighty @Trav is sure that I am. I just bought the car that I liked. Leather isn’t necessarily a clean process either and I don’t think anyone is under the impression of get all manufacturing processes use petroleum products. Leather isn’t a clear recycling process either.

I don’t know why every conversation has to be a gotcha about who hates the planet more. I’ve never the guy to cite green anything for my reason for buying the car.
 
I like the seats in our M3P and I like the seats in our GS350 F Sport.
I like my leather shoes and belts, and my steak medium rare.

Here's the cheap plastic from the red cow in the RX450h F Sport... Just kidding @Trav; all good. I don't even know if it is leather or not...
View attachment 282622
The seats are likely leather, but I’d assume most of the center console would be vinyl. That’s the approach of most brands.
 
I think you’re mistaking me for someone who considered any part of this when buying the car. I’m not the virtue signaler that the high and mighty @Trav is sure that I am. I just bought the car that I liked. Leather isn’t necessarily a clean process either and I don’t think anyone is under the impression of get all manufacturing processes use petroleum products. Leather isn’t a clear recycling process either.

I don’t know why every conversation has to be a gotcha about who hates the planet more. I’ve never the guy to cite green anything for my reason for buying the car.
None of that was directed AT you, I thought we were having a conversation about the point @Trav appeared to be making?
 
What are you talking about?
GM was present in Europe through Opel. They sold it, after German government bailed them out. Those tariffs don’t stop FORD from being 4th largest seller in Europe. How is that those “tariffs “ don’t bother FORD?
And tell us, what will GM sell in Europe? I really want to know what competitive model GM has? They already sell Cadillac (which, cannot compete with anyone), and few Corvettes. But, what else? What other model GM has that would be competitive in Europe?
Ford built plants to make Euro vehicles. Those Fords are made in Europe. No idea what deals they made with governments. GM had Opel but it wasn't called GM. You don't see US made autos sold in Europe because of the tariffs is what I'm saying.
 
Ford built plants to make Euro vehicles. Those Fords are made in Europe. No idea what deals they made with governments. GM had Opel but it wasn't called GM. You don't see US made autos sold in Europe because of the tariffs is what I'm saying.
Actually, no. Not because of the tariffs, not by a long shot.

- GM had Opel, and it was clearly labeled as Opel - GM. GM was not on the car, but was on all docs and ads.
- Ford Europe has been a German entity for about 60 years, since the late 50's or about. They were German cars for all intents and puproses. They only got tighter corporatively in the last few years or so.
- US-made autos did not sell in Europe because none of the mass-produced US cars are adapted in any shape or form to the Euro market. US car makers have no compacts, no Diesels, nothing to cover the Accord-class sedans that are the meat of the market along with the compacts. Notable exceptions were the Chrysler Voyager and all the Jeeps. And even those are europeanized and for many of them - built in Austria (Voyager), with local engines (diesels mostly).

The US market is very specific. Even the Accord has always been US-specific. In Europe, the Accord was the US Acura TSX. And the Euro market is comparatively so difficult and small that it doesn't make sense for the US manufacturers to make Euro-version cars. The Neon sold comparatively not to bad in Europe, as did the Olds Alero. But that was a while back.

No US automotive brand has any incentive putting money and resources in developing a small but complex car that will be expensive to build and will sell through a small margin, when they can put the same money in an F150 and rake big bucks off it locally. And selling an F150 in Europe will simply not work, not only because Europeans have brains and don't feel the need to commute to work alone in a 6000lb V8, but also because they can't do the majority of things a large pick up truck can do in the US.

Most of the things one can do with a large pick up truck in the US can't be done in Europe: loading heavy loads, or pulling long trailers and such automatically puts you in a bracket where you need a professional trucker's license. The limits in Europe are by weight and total length, and you hit these very fast with a large pick up truck.

There is a micro market for V8 SUVs and such, but they are exotics, and they barely count.

The imports go the other way. The last gen of Saturns were all straight off the mill Opels, a lot of Buicks were Opels till a few years ago, and most utility vans that took the US market in the last decade (MB Vito, Dodge and then Ram that were first MB Sprinters, now Fiat Ducato vans, and most of the Ford Transit and the little vans - are directly imported/adapted Euro models.
 
Ford built plants to make Euro vehicles. Those Fords are made in Europe. No idea what deals they made with governments. GM had Opel but it wasn't called GM. You don't see US made autos sold in Europe because of the tariffs is what I'm saying.
No, you don't see American vehicles bcs. no one would buy them, tariffs or not. EU had 10% tariff on US vehicles bcs. chicken tax. What would GM sell in Europe? Give me one competitive model that would justify sales.
GM sells Cadillac, Corvette in Europe. Nothing else would be competitive.

Ford does not have a "deal" with governments. FORD is basically a domestic brand in Germany and the UK. GM was present in Germany since 1933, and OPEL was far, far more than just a brand. OPEL Was responsible for GM small engines, downsizing etc. But GM decided to abandon it.

If you think GM moneymakers here would sell in EU, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
If you have FSD on, and you take your attention off the road for more than a few seconds, it knows. Texting on your phone? It gets mad. Playing with the screen of the car? It gets mad.
My sister and I conducted an experiment. FSD gets madder at her than at me. Sunglasses fashionably on top of one's head irritates FSD.
 
I don't trust automated driving yet. One of the locals was killed when his Tesla came to a fork in the road and crashed.
And what does this have to do with "automated driving"?

Tesla offers "FSD (supervised)" not automated not autonomous. Cameras and sensors work overtime to ensure the driver is paying attention else things start flashing, beeping, and unpleasant things.

Then again I've never heard of anyone crashing at a fork in the road before Tesla!
 
That is how you justify cheap plastic seats in a 100K car?
What makes you think Teslas are "100k cars"?

I expect mine to last a whole lot longer than 100k miles.

And it cost under $50,000. Model Y Long Range.

I shopped, found nothing better.
 
I also find it a bit amusing that a petroleum product (vinyl) is panned as being "greener" than leather, which is arguably a renewable resource.
No one knows exactly what or how Tesla's vegan leather is made. Or cares to accurately account for all aspects of growing leather, and processing to be suitable for car seats. What we do know is Tesla Vegan Leather costs less, is nicer, and wears longer. Win, win, win.

I firmly believe the cost of production is an accurate metric of resource consumption. If leather costs more then it consumes more resources.
 
Well the chicken or the egg debate certainly lives on - but that cow died for ribeye’s - the hide was a byproduct 😷
Yet by the time the "byproduct" was made into something useable it costs more than the alternatives.
 
What makes you think Teslas are "100k cars"?

I expect mine to last a whole lot longer than 100k miles.

And it cost under $50,000. Model Y Long Range.

I shopped, found nothing better.
Look up prices of a Model S.
No one knows exactly what or how Tesla's vegan leather is made. Or cares to accurately account for all aspects of growing leather, and processing to be suitable for car seats. What we do know is Tesla Vegan Leather costs less, is nicer, and wears longer. Win, win, win.

I firmly believe the cost of production is an accurate metric of resource consumption. If leather costs more then it consumes more resources.
Ultrafabrics Holdings Co supply the polyurethane seat covering for Tesla.
Yet by the time the "byproduct" was made into something useable it costs more than the alternatives.
After reading this you may want to reconsider. Leather can be tanned with environmentally friendly products like olive oil.

https://www.manuel-dreesmann.com/en-us/blogs/information/what-is-pu-leather-and-why-you-should-avoid
 
Leather can be tanned environmentally friendly. The heavy processing of leather for cars doesn't fall into that category.

Oh, and here's Model S pricing.
Screenshot-2025-06-01-at-11-23-50-PM.png
 
Look up prices of a Model S.
Look up the price of Wagyu steak. Now use your same logic and pretend that basis sets the price of an In-And-Out burger. Tesla sells very few Model S compared to Model 3 and Model Y volumes.

I owned and drove a Model S for 10 years. I know what they used to cost. My Model Y is half the price and twice the car.

Ultrafabrics Holdings Co supply the polyurethane seat covering for Tesla.
Thats nice but doesn't answer my statement. You still don't know how the fabric is made.

After reading this you may want to reconsider. Leather can be tanned with environmentally friendly products like olive oil.

https://www.manuel-dreesmann.com/en-us/blogs/information/what-is-pu-leather-and-why-you-should-avoid
You didn't comprehend anything I said. I drive a Tesla. I don't care how "environmentally friendly" my seat coverings. I do care they were made under the same regulations governing everything else made in the USA. I do care the cost was less than leather. I do care the material lasts longer. I do care that I like it better than any leather seat I have owned (4). And I'm quite happy that in costing less, less resources were consumed in it's manufacture.
 
Yep. That was true of my VW. Lexus may be one of the brands that does more. They’d be more likely than something lower end.
So you are guessing again. Not in the Lexus I'm familiar with. Seating surfaces only.

If you want everything leather then you purchase an aftermarket seat cover. Have a pro install, not a job for an amateur. Depends on what you buy, equal or better than any OE seat.
 
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