Actually it's interesting how people who have no idea what they are talking about make sweeping generalizations about certain groups.
Today's lesson in Irony
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Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My comment was intended to relate to true opportunists. I do not object to helping those in need. There are many accomplishments we can be proud of in this country. There are also, unfortunately, many things we can improve.
I interpret a lot of right wing rhetoric as something akin to survival of the fittest. I wonder what things would look like if we went down that path.
Survival of the fittest? Do you really think you would survive that test if the fittest got together and turned on you? Go back and take a look at Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Emperor Hirahito, Joseph Stalin, or any of the others who began a game of survival of the fittest.
Just because you have thrived in a nation that has outlawed the "strong" taking advantage of the weak, does not mean that you are the fittest. Whether economically or literally, if the fittest were untethered today, you would find yourself starved to death in a ditch, or shot to death in one.
Before you stand and look at another one of your fellow man and declare him inferior to yourself, declaring him worthy of a terrible fate, you might want to think about what would happen if the people standing above you decided upon the same declaration.
This brand of thinking has not only brought about civil failure throughout history, but economic failure as well. I've been to plenty of nations who have no programs to take care of their poor, and most of them have large areas that they can no longer govern, because the very people they rejected now reject them back.
There is no need to explore your idea in theory. Go to any of those nations where they think like you, tell them (especially the poor) about how you are so fit, and see what happens to you.
My comment was intended to relate to true opportunists. I do not object to helping those in need. There are many accomplishments we can be proud of in this country. There are also, unfortunately, many things we can improve.
I interpret a lot of right wing rhetoric as something akin to survival of the fittest. I wonder what things would look like if we went down that path.
Survival of the fittest? Do you really think you would survive that test if the fittest got together and turned on you? Go back and take a look at Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Emperor Hirahito, Joseph Stalin, or any of the others who began a game of survival of the fittest.
Just because you have thrived in a nation that has outlawed the "strong" taking advantage of the weak, does not mean that you are the fittest. Whether economically or literally, if the fittest were untethered today, you would find yourself starved to death in a ditch, or shot to death in one.
Before you stand and look at another one of your fellow man and declare him inferior to yourself, declaring him worthy of a terrible fate, you might want to think about what would happen if the people standing above you decided upon the same declaration.
This brand of thinking has not only brought about civil failure throughout history, but economic failure as well. I've been to plenty of nations who have no programs to take care of their poor, and most of them have large areas that they can no longer govern, because the very people they rejected now reject them back.
There is no need to explore your idea in theory. Go to any of those nations where they think like you, tell them (especially the poor) about how you are so fit, and see what happens to you.
Be careful. If you criticize the food stamp program in a crowd of people you'd better be wearing a rain coat and boots.
At least the black market is alive and well where recipients fall back on the free enterprise system and give up as much as half the value for cigarettes, wine, beer and smack. The only drawback around here for such dealings is that it helps to speak Spanish.
At least the black market is alive and well where recipients fall back on the free enterprise system and give up as much as half the value for cigarettes, wine, beer and smack. The only drawback around here for such dealings is that it helps to speak Spanish.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Actually it's interesting how people who have no idea what they are talking about make sweeping generalizations about certain groups.
Do you mean, all the generalizations about those on food stamps?
A sad part about who gets them is that a very large number of military families qualify for, and receive food stamps.
Actually it's interesting how people who have no idea what they are talking about make sweeping generalizations about certain groups.
Do you mean, all the generalizations about those on food stamps?
A sad part about who gets them is that a very large number of military families qualify for, and receive food stamps.
Nobody should go hungry in this country. Doesn't matter how worthless they are to society. To the people who work and support the rest. Be thankful you can contribute. I would much rather see my taxes go toward raising people up than tearing them down.
Sorta off topic but not really, There is a clan of Navaho that relied for centuries on ground water. Except that mining has contaminated the aquifer with lead and uranium. Now each household gets by on 100 gallons a week trucked in. I am hoping some of my taxes get wasted on a boondoggle project, pork barrel-ed and amended, to get them running water.
Sorta off topic but not really, There is a clan of Navaho that relied for centuries on ground water. Except that mining has contaminated the aquifer with lead and uranium. Now each household gets by on 100 gallons a week trucked in. I am hoping some of my taxes get wasted on a boondoggle project, pork barrel-ed and amended, to get them running water.
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There will always be those who feel entitled to what others have worked for. Its greed. I want what i have , and i want some of what you have worked for too. Greed plain and simple.
Originally Posted By: andyd
Nobody should go hungry in this country. Doesn't matter how worthless they are to society. To the people who work and support the rest. Be thankful you can contribute. I would much rather see my taxes go toward raising people up than tearing them down.
I definitely do NOT agree, those worthless ones commit crimes, injure and murder innocent bystanders, create havoc, disturb the peace and security of others, they are the chaff among the wheat, they deserve NOTHING and should be left to disappear off the face of the earth. I want nothing of my tax dollars to go to them.
Nobody should go hungry in this country. Doesn't matter how worthless they are to society. To the people who work and support the rest. Be thankful you can contribute. I would much rather see my taxes go toward raising people up than tearing them down.
I definitely do NOT agree, those worthless ones commit crimes, injure and murder innocent bystanders, create havoc, disturb the peace and security of others, they are the chaff among the wheat, they deserve NOTHING and should be left to disappear off the face of the earth. I want nothing of my tax dollars to go to them.
I guess some do not understand the term irony.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Who's more successful at bribing politicians into food stamp programs, the dirt poor or big agribusiness?
It's like asking who's better off when Section 8 gives a $50/mo cost of living adjustment, the tenants who suddenly can move across town to swanky digs, or the slumlords who still have the same mortgage and tenant pool they did yesterday?
As usual, excellent points from eljefino.
And this thread got funny very quickly, if we can set aside the jabs.
Sad thing is the real trouble-makers may get caught and go to jail, but through that system they cost taxpayers more than the food stamps ever could.
Who's more successful at bribing politicians into food stamp programs, the dirt poor or big agribusiness?
It's like asking who's better off when Section 8 gives a $50/mo cost of living adjustment, the tenants who suddenly can move across town to swanky digs, or the slumlords who still have the same mortgage and tenant pool they did yesterday?
As usual, excellent points from eljefino.
And this thread got funny very quickly, if we can set aside the jabs.
Sad thing is the real trouble-makers may get caught and go to jail, but through that system they cost taxpayers more than the food stamps ever could.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Who's more successful at bribing politicians into food stamp programs, the dirt poor or big agribusiness?
It's like asking who's better off when Section 8 gives a $50/mo cost of living adjustment, the tenants who suddenly can move across town to swanky digs, or the slumlords who still have the same mortgage and tenant pool they did yesterday?
Some truth to that, but there are also the politicians that keep classes of people helpless and dependant on their handout, and therefore are bribing them for votes lest they worry about losing their free ride.
Who's more successful at bribing politicians into food stamp programs, the dirt poor or big agribusiness?
It's like asking who's better off when Section 8 gives a $50/mo cost of living adjustment, the tenants who suddenly can move across town to swanky digs, or the slumlords who still have the same mortgage and tenant pool they did yesterday?
Some truth to that, but there are also the politicians that keep classes of people helpless and dependant on their handout, and therefore are bribing them for votes lest they worry about losing their free ride.
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My comment was intended to relate to true opportunists. I do not object to helping those in need. There are many accomplishments we can be proud of in this country. There are also, unfortunately, many things we can improve.
I interpret a lot of right wing rhetoric as something akin to survival of the fittest. I wonder what things would look like if we went down that path.
Survival of the fittest? Do you really think you would survive that test if the fittest got together and turned on you? Go back and take a look at Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Emperor Hirahito, Joseph Stalin, or any of the others who began a game of survival of the fittest.
Just because you have thrived in a nation that has outlawed the "strong" taking advantage of the weak, does not mean that you are the fittest. Whether economically or literally, if the fittest were untethered today, you would find yourself starved to death in a ditch, or shot to death in one.
Before you stand and look at another one of your fellow man and declare him inferior to yourself, declaring him worthy of a terrible fate, you might want to think about what would happen if the people standing above you decided upon the same declaration.
This brand of thinking has not only brought about civil failure throughout history, but economic failure as well. I've been to plenty of nations who have no programs to take care of their poor, and most of them have large areas that they can no longer govern, because the very people they rejected now reject them back.
There is no need to explore your idea in theory. Go to any of those nations where they think like you, tell them (especially the poor) about how you are so fit, and see what happens to you.
Not sure what the origin of this vitriol is, but I think I have been misinterpreted. My statement was my own interpretation of what I was reading about "letting the deadbeats starve." I was thinking that some of what I see, here and elsewhere, leads me to believe that there are those that feel that anyone who cannot pay for everything they need is a freeloader and, therefore, deserving of derision and death. So, I am just asking what a survival of the fittest model might look like. Your comments actually paint a rather bleak picture. I do not claim to be any "fitter" or more deserving than anyone else.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
My comment was intended to relate to true opportunists. I do not object to helping those in need. There are many accomplishments we can be proud of in this country. There are also, unfortunately, many things we can improve.
I interpret a lot of right wing rhetoric as something akin to survival of the fittest. I wonder what things would look like if we went down that path.
Survival of the fittest? Do you really think you would survive that test if the fittest got together and turned on you? Go back and take a look at Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Emperor Hirahito, Joseph Stalin, or any of the others who began a game of survival of the fittest.
Just because you have thrived in a nation that has outlawed the "strong" taking advantage of the weak, does not mean that you are the fittest. Whether economically or literally, if the fittest were untethered today, you would find yourself starved to death in a ditch, or shot to death in one.
Before you stand and look at another one of your fellow man and declare him inferior to yourself, declaring him worthy of a terrible fate, you might want to think about what would happen if the people standing above you decided upon the same declaration.
This brand of thinking has not only brought about civil failure throughout history, but economic failure as well. I've been to plenty of nations who have no programs to take care of their poor, and most of them have large areas that they can no longer govern, because the very people they rejected now reject them back.
There is no need to explore your idea in theory. Go to any of those nations where they think like you, tell them (especially the poor) about how you are so fit, and see what happens to you.
Not sure what the origin of this vitriol is, but I think I have been misinterpreted. My statement was my own interpretation of what I was reading about "letting the deadbeats starve." I was thinking that some of what I see, here and elsewhere, leads me to believe that there are those that feel that anyone who cannot pay for everything they need is a freeloader and, therefore, deserving of derision and death. So, I am just asking what a survival of the fittest model might look like. Your comments actually paint a rather bleak picture. I do not claim to be any "fitter" or more deserving than anyone else.
OP, that IS irony.
What is funny or sad is I was at a Quik Trip and a guy bought a Starbucks frappacino with a EBT card! Meanwhile I bought a .79 drink.
If people need help, help them just make is so they can buy only staples.
What is funny or sad is I was at a Quik Trip and a guy bought a Starbucks frappacino with a EBT card! Meanwhile I bought a .79 drink.
If people need help, help them just make is so they can buy only staples.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
What ever happened to "the gubment cheese?"
Moved up from that.
We have the most overfed, wealthiest poor people of any country. And the nicest jails too! All on the taxpayer.
What ever happened to "the gubment cheese?"
Moved up from that.
We have the most overfed, wealthiest poor people of any country. And the nicest jails too! All on the taxpayer.
Medicare and SS are programs that I have spent over 40 years paying into- and "free" medicare covers only hospitalization, additional coverages have premiums and copays. A bit different than Medicaid and the welfare system. Granted, there are those who legitimately need and deserve this help, but the abuse of this system is rampant- too many with a "you have it so I should have it too" mentality, who are content to let others support them so they can sit at home and eat their free steaks and lobster and drink and smoke all day instead of working to improve their lives. We should be giving them jobs instead of free money.
Originally Posted By: PR1955
... We should be giving them jobs instead of free money.
All true. But even jobs cannot be given for free. Who wants to hire a careless incompetent employee? I must learn to offer value to my employer.
... We should be giving them jobs instead of free money.
All true. But even jobs cannot be given for free. Who wants to hire a careless incompetent employee? I must learn to offer value to my employer.
If you want a government handout you need to do work, no work no handout. So anyone asking for food stamps can clean government offices, clean bathrooms, pick up trash, work in VA hospital, work as caregivers and maids for disabled vets. Many would be happy to work for the check, but many of the chronic long term parasites would quickly disappear if we asked them to actually do work for their government handout.
I still say that the type of person that is being described here in the most negative terms would simply turn to crime. This particular type will neither get a job nor starve if the subsidies are cut off.
I do not care to wade in and state whether I believe this is the majority, or not, of those on public assistance.
I do not care to wade in and state whether I believe this is the majority, or not, of those on public assistance.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I still say that the type of person that is being described here in the most negative terms would simply turn to crime. This particular type will neither get a job nor starve if the subsidies are cut off.
I do not care to wade in and state whether I believe this is the majority, or not, of those on public assistance.
If they turn to crime let them serve time, AND HARD LABOR too.
I can promise you that most of these criminals would refrain from their activities if they knew when imprisoned that they would also be doing hard labor at least 5 days a week. Let them break up rocks
and dig ditches in the hot summer sun.
I still say that the type of person that is being described here in the most negative terms would simply turn to crime. This particular type will neither get a job nor starve if the subsidies are cut off.
I do not care to wade in and state whether I believe this is the majority, or not, of those on public assistance.
If they turn to crime let them serve time, AND HARD LABOR too.
I can promise you that most of these criminals would refrain from their activities if they knew when imprisoned that they would also be doing hard labor at least 5 days a week. Let them break up rocks
and dig ditches in the hot summer sun.
Originally Posted By: PR1955
Medicare and SS are programs that I have spent over 40 years paying into- and "free" medicare covers only hospitalization, additional coverages have premiums and copays. A bit different than Medicaid and the welfare system. Granted, there are those who legitimately need and deserve this help, but the abuse of this system is rampant- too many with a "you have it so I should have it too" mentality, who are content to let others support them so they can sit at home and eat their free steaks and lobster and drink and smoke all day instead of working to improve their lives. We should be giving them jobs instead of free money.
Especially those military folks. And the working poor.
You really have no idea who get the majority of food stamps, do you? And......If you can feed your family steaks and lobster for $40 a week each....Well, you are a better man than me.
I also spent 40+ years working. But I do not begrudge the less than 2% of the federal budget that pays for food stamps.....Especially since most family units that receive them are either the working poor or folks well past working age. Also....The majority of families getting this aid contain either a disabled person, or children.
Plus....In the end, the food stamp program is as much a subsidy for agriculture as it is welfare.
Your concern is all out of proportion to the problem. If we prioritize, we should be fixing the big leaks in federal spending first. All the fraud and abuse in the food stamp program cannot amount to more than .5% of the budget....More likely .05%. Just sayin'.
Medicare and SS are programs that I have spent over 40 years paying into- and "free" medicare covers only hospitalization, additional coverages have premiums and copays. A bit different than Medicaid and the welfare system. Granted, there are those who legitimately need and deserve this help, but the abuse of this system is rampant- too many with a "you have it so I should have it too" mentality, who are content to let others support them so they can sit at home and eat their free steaks and lobster and drink and smoke all day instead of working to improve their lives. We should be giving them jobs instead of free money.
Especially those military folks. And the working poor.
You really have no idea who get the majority of food stamps, do you? And......If you can feed your family steaks and lobster for $40 a week each....Well, you are a better man than me.
I also spent 40+ years working. But I do not begrudge the less than 2% of the federal budget that pays for food stamps.....Especially since most family units that receive them are either the working poor or folks well past working age. Also....The majority of families getting this aid contain either a disabled person, or children.
Plus....In the end, the food stamp program is as much a subsidy for agriculture as it is welfare.
Your concern is all out of proportion to the problem. If we prioritize, we should be fixing the big leaks in federal spending first. All the fraud and abuse in the food stamp program cannot amount to more than .5% of the budget....More likely .05%. Just sayin'.
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