Vehicle reliability has certainly improved many fold over the last decades. With that said, I think the improved reliability of Big Three products came about because of strong competition from foreign manufacturers, most notably, the Japanese manufacturers.
Today's legendary reliability vehicle is?
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I'm a Honda guy, but if I was going to buy a car that I was going to keep for 20 years, it would be a Toyota. My sense is that Toyota uses "mature" technology and doesn't tend to try anything new...witness Hondas with CVTs vs. Toyota with old-school automatics. I think Honda does more elegant engineering, but with that they lose some of the anvil-like reliability that Toyota is known for.
Mercedes and Volvo USED to build cars that ran a LONG time, I don't see that with their newer products.
Mercedes and Volvo USED to build cars that ran a LONG time, I don't see that with their newer products.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
All cars are good, any difference is negligible. Buy what YOU like.
Negligible? That's just not true at all.
While cars in general have improved greatly in reliability, many are still prone to repairs and issues while others are trouble free.
Audi, VW, Mercedes, and the like put out some fantastic cars. But as reliable as a Corolla or some Honda models? No way.
This is not be speaking either....it's facts and data. They don't lie.
Now if I had the money, I'd buy a beautiful Ferrari. But is it as reliable as a even a Ford Mustang? Probably not.
All cars are good, any difference is negligible. Buy what YOU like.
Negligible? That's just not true at all.
While cars in general have improved greatly in reliability, many are still prone to repairs and issues while others are trouble free.
Audi, VW, Mercedes, and the like put out some fantastic cars. But as reliable as a Corolla or some Honda models? No way.
This is not be speaking either....it's facts and data. They don't lie.
Now if I had the money, I'd buy a beautiful Ferrari. But is it as reliable as a even a Ford Mustang? Probably not.
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
I'm a Honda guy, but if I was going to buy a car that I was going to keep for 20 years, it would be a Toyota. My sense is that Toyota uses "mature" technology and doesn't tend to try anything new...witness Hondas with CVTs vs. Toyota with old-school automatics. I think Honda does more elegant engineering, but with that they lose some of the anvil-like reliability that Toyota is known for.
Mercedes and Volvo USED to build cars that ran a LONG time, I don't see that with their newer products.
I tend to agree with you. I don't care for the look of some of the Toyotas....but in my opinion they are probably a notch above Honda in reliability.
I'm a Honda guy, but if I was going to buy a car that I was going to keep for 20 years, it would be a Toyota. My sense is that Toyota uses "mature" technology and doesn't tend to try anything new...witness Hondas with CVTs vs. Toyota with old-school automatics. I think Honda does more elegant engineering, but with that they lose some of the anvil-like reliability that Toyota is known for.
Mercedes and Volvo USED to build cars that ran a LONG time, I don't see that with their newer products.
I tend to agree with you. I don't care for the look of some of the Toyotas....but in my opinion they are probably a notch above Honda in reliability.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Anything from Chrysler-Fiat. Especially the transmissions. Those things are bomb proof.
Can't speak for a Chrysler part but there's more 70s FIATs in the world than Toyotas'. There is more in owning a car than reliability.
Anything from Chrysler-Fiat. Especially the transmissions. Those things are bomb proof.
Can't speak for a Chrysler part but there's more 70s FIATs in the world than Toyotas'. There is more in owning a car than reliability.
Originally Posted By: pbm
If you visit carcomplaints.com you will see that Toyota's and Honda's have plenty of issues (Honda more so). I agree that all makes are better but Chrysler-Fiat would rank below most.
The problem with carcomplaints.com is owners of Honda and Toyota expect they are reliable so they will complaint for any mishap. Other car owners expect opposite so they will not complaint when something went south.
Why are Camry and Corolla top sellers ? Are they good driver cars ? Or because they are so reliable ?
There are many midsize sedan available at similar price with Camry, but none was best seller for many years. How about CR yearly reliability report, which midsize sedan was at the top ?
If you visit carcomplaints.com you will see that Toyota's and Honda's have plenty of issues (Honda more so). I agree that all makes are better but Chrysler-Fiat would rank below most.
The problem with carcomplaints.com is owners of Honda and Toyota expect they are reliable so they will complaint for any mishap. Other car owners expect opposite so they will not complaint when something went south.
Why are Camry and Corolla top sellers ? Are they good driver cars ? Or because they are so reliable ?
There are many midsize sedan available at similar price with Camry, but none was best seller for many years. How about CR yearly reliability report, which midsize sedan was at the top ?
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: pbm
If you visit carcomplaints.com you will see that Toyota's and Honda's have plenty of issues (Honda more so). I agree that all makes are better but Chrysler-Fiat would rank below most.
The problem with carcomplaints.com is owners of Honda and Toyota expect they are reliable so they will complaint for any mishap. Other car owners expect opposite so they will not complaint when something went south.
Why are Camry and Corolla top sellers ? Are they good driver cars ? Or because they are so reliable ?
There are many midsize sedan available at similar price with Camry, but none was best seller for many years. How about CR yearly reliability report, which midsize sedan was at the top ?
JD Power says the Malibu is the best midsize for long term dependability. Is there any way to accurately measure? I say no since every report you look at puts a different car on top. Within the same class of car, I am willing to say they are all pretty close.
So you buy a car that has 80 failures per 100 vehicles over one that has 83 failures per 100 vehicles but it's noisy, rides rough and the seat hurts your back. What's the point?
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-(VDS)-by-Category/433ENG
Originally Posted By: pbm
If you visit carcomplaints.com you will see that Toyota's and Honda's have plenty of issues (Honda more so). I agree that all makes are better but Chrysler-Fiat would rank below most.
The problem with carcomplaints.com is owners of Honda and Toyota expect they are reliable so they will complaint for any mishap. Other car owners expect opposite so they will not complaint when something went south.
Why are Camry and Corolla top sellers ? Are they good driver cars ? Or because they are so reliable ?
There are many midsize sedan available at similar price with Camry, but none was best seller for many years. How about CR yearly reliability report, which midsize sedan was at the top ?
JD Power says the Malibu is the best midsize for long term dependability. Is there any way to accurately measure? I say no since every report you look at puts a different car on top. Within the same class of car, I am willing to say they are all pretty close.
So you buy a car that has 80 failures per 100 vehicles over one that has 83 failures per 100 vehicles but it's noisy, rides rough and the seat hurts your back. What's the point?
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/awards/Vehicle-Dependability-Study-(VDS)-by-Category/433ENG
A lot of new car complaints have to do with the electronic and infotainment systems. If you can buy a stripper without all that stuff you will have much better reliability, or else plan on driving around with it broken in a few years.
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HD gas trucks. Work day in day out and will outlast anything on the road with no issues. GM 6.0 6 speed Powertrain one example.
Actually, if you can find one, a standard half-ton Ford or Chevy pickup that was used by a little old lady instead of a contractor can be very reliable and long lasting. Since lots of people have purchased trucks in recent years who are not "truck people" they are pretty easy to find with low or mostly highway miles. Look for trucks with a clean, not dented bed and a small engine meaning it wasn't driven like a hot rod.
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HD gas trucks. Work day in day out and will outlast anything on the road with no issues. GM 6.0 6 speed Powertrain one example.
Actually, if you can find one, a standard half-ton Ford or Chevy pickup that was used by a little old lady instead of a contractor can be very reliable and long lasting. Since lots of people have purchased trucks in recent years who are not "truck people" they are pretty easy to find with low or mostly highway miles. Look for trucks with a clean, not dented bed and a small engine meaning it wasn't driven like a hot rod.
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Hmmm. My son likes the look of the Fiat 500X. FCA really that sub-par?
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Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
Dont forget the 2003 and up Crown Vics. I see more 400,000 mile and above than any other car thru this shop than any other make. after all the years of small changes they got it right.
This. Nothing touches a CV/GM/TC for longevity. Due to their LEO and Limo duty, they are the longest driven cars out there, racking up obscene mileage.
Dont forget the 2003 and up Crown Vics. I see more 400,000 mile and above than any other car thru this shop than any other make. after all the years of small changes they got it right.
This. Nothing touches a CV/GM/TC for longevity. Due to their LEO and Limo duty, they are the longest driven cars out there, racking up obscene mileage.
We rode to CLE from my mother's house in January for a flight to LA in a CV cab that had that kind of obscene mileage.
These cars do hold up.
I can tell you based upon our fleet experience that they do require more repairs in our patrol use than does an old Taurus up to around 200K at which point the Tauruses will invariably suffer a transaxle failure.
Cost per mile or day in perimeter patrol use ends up lower with the Taurus, including fuel used and parts needed and decent old Tauruses are cheaper than any old Crown Vic, since the Crown Vics remain in heavy demand with cab operators.
Cab companies and cops need a real back seat and trunk and the Taurus has neither, so the Crown Vic was long the vehicle of choice.
These cars do hold up.
I can tell you based upon our fleet experience that they do require more repairs in our patrol use than does an old Taurus up to around 200K at which point the Tauruses will invariably suffer a transaxle failure.
Cost per mile or day in perimeter patrol use ends up lower with the Taurus, including fuel used and parts needed and decent old Tauruses are cheaper than any old Crown Vic, since the Crown Vics remain in heavy demand with cab operators.
Cab companies and cops need a real back seat and trunk and the Taurus has neither, so the Crown Vic was long the vehicle of choice.
Military HMMWVs.
Bahahaha.
Sadly, People blame Daimler Era Chryslers as being unreliable.
yet they turn around and state that Mercedes are reliable.
It all depends on the conditions the car is kept. I know people who have blown a prius up at 70K, I know people that have Corvairs, GEOs, Saturns in the 300K range.
I don't think that its an issue with the car, per say, I believe in todays lifestyle, at home mechanics are a dying breed, people used to take more pride in their possessions, and had more time to tend to those possessions. In todays world, people pay money to live in a house that they spend less time at working longer hours and shifts.
Long gone are the days of neighborhoods having garages open all down the block and everyone doing maintenance.
I find the Mazda L/Duratec engine period pretty bulletproof. I'm sure someone else will say otherwise.
As for reliablilty? I have heard great news from people who own VWs, Volvos, and Subarus, new and old.
This day and age, a generation of engine lasts a short period of time, by the time they start fully refining it, theres a new engine designed to replace it.
Bahahaha.
Sadly, People blame Daimler Era Chryslers as being unreliable.
yet they turn around and state that Mercedes are reliable.
It all depends on the conditions the car is kept. I know people who have blown a prius up at 70K, I know people that have Corvairs, GEOs, Saturns in the 300K range.
I don't think that its an issue with the car, per say, I believe in todays lifestyle, at home mechanics are a dying breed, people used to take more pride in their possessions, and had more time to tend to those possessions. In todays world, people pay money to live in a house that they spend less time at working longer hours and shifts.
Long gone are the days of neighborhoods having garages open all down the block and everyone doing maintenance.
I find the Mazda L/Duratec engine period pretty bulletproof. I'm sure someone else will say otherwise.
As for reliablilty? I have heard great news from people who own VWs, Volvos, and Subarus, new and old.
This day and age, a generation of engine lasts a short period of time, by the time they start fully refining it, theres a new engine designed to replace it.
I think generally most vehicles these days are pretty good..Hyundai makes a great vehicle and backs it up with a great warranty although they are not cheap anymore they are nice vehicles.
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Mercedes and Volvo USED to build cars that ran a LONG time, I don't see that with their newer products.
Blasphemy! how dare you drag Volvo's good name through the mud! Many folks on here swear by their Volvo's (GHT included).
Actually I wholeheartedly agree with you (see username).
Mercedes and Volvo USED to build cars that ran a LONG time, I don't see that with their newer products.
Blasphemy! how dare you drag Volvo's good name through the mud! Many folks on here swear by their Volvo's (GHT included).
My experience the vehicle you drive relatively easy, maintain it normally, and coupled to luck.
My parents seem to have gotten 250k -300k without serious issue with a 1988 gmc suburban 4x4 , 85 Amc eagle, 2000 Subaru Forester and now moved onto 2016 outback.
None of above were known for "legendary" reliability yet they had few issues over the 15-16 years owned. All were most basic models you could buy except for ac and automatic.
My parents seem to have gotten 250k -300k without serious issue with a 1988 gmc suburban 4x4 , 85 Amc eagle, 2000 Subaru Forester and now moved onto 2016 outback.
None of above were known for "legendary" reliability yet they had few issues over the 15-16 years owned. All were most basic models you could buy except for ac and automatic.
With these newer cars being mass produced efficiently I think they're all even when it comes to reliability.
As long as you stay away from the bad cars(like the Fiat junk) I think you'll get a decent car that'll go 100k with little to no issues.
Even these new Toyotas and Hondas, once legendary in reliability, will have issues holding up to 200k of use. Engine may be bulletproof but the rest of the car will fall apart. Plastic isn't made to stand the test of time.
A majority of cars are only good for about 90-100k before they start requiring a handful of repairs.
As long as you stay away from the bad cars(like the Fiat junk) I think you'll get a decent car that'll go 100k with little to no issues.
Even these new Toyotas and Hondas, once legendary in reliability, will have issues holding up to 200k of use. Engine may be bulletproof but the rest of the car will fall apart. Plastic isn't made to stand the test of time.
A majority of cars are only good for about 90-100k before they start requiring a handful of repairs.
www.truedelta.com is the best and probably the only viable place that tracks actual long term and short term reliability. It also includes real repair reports, the type of repair and the cost.
The most reliable popular vehicles seem to be the Camry/Accord pair. With newer Camry's edging out the Accord by a percent or two.
The most reliable brand is clearly Toyota.
2001 thru 2016 = Toyota
2013 thru 2016 = Toyota
(or any other combo of years between 2001 and 2016)
While a few individual years have other brands on top, Toyota tops the list so often, it's the overall and numerical winner. In addition, Toyota's quality does not seem to be "slipping" regardless of what the GM fanboi's say.
I don't own or drive a Toyota. I'm just reporting the results.
I am not interested in subjective opinion. I'm interested in facts. And facts clearly indicate that Toyota is on top, and has been for 15 years. Followed closely by Honda.
Over the last 10 years, Toyota branded vehicles experience half the repairs of Ford or Chevy and one third that of VW, Dodge, Jaguar or Saab.
The most reliable popular vehicles seem to be the Camry/Accord pair. With newer Camry's edging out the Accord by a percent or two.
The most reliable brand is clearly Toyota.
2001 thru 2016 = Toyota
2013 thru 2016 = Toyota
(or any other combo of years between 2001 and 2016)
While a few individual years have other brands on top, Toyota tops the list so often, it's the overall and numerical winner. In addition, Toyota's quality does not seem to be "slipping" regardless of what the GM fanboi's say.
I don't own or drive a Toyota. I'm just reporting the results.
I am not interested in subjective opinion. I'm interested in facts. And facts clearly indicate that Toyota is on top, and has been for 15 years. Followed closely by Honda.
Over the last 10 years, Toyota branded vehicles experience half the repairs of Ford or Chevy and one third that of VW, Dodge, Jaguar or Saab.
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